Nourish & Empower

From Doomscrolling to Disconnection: The Impact of Screen Time

• Jessica Coviello & Maggie Lefavor • Season 2 • Episode 28

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Your phone can be a tool, a comfort, a classroom, and a trigger all at once and your body often pays the price before you even realize it. We sit down with registered dietitian Kelsey McNulty, founder of True North Nutrition, to unpack how social media, screen time, and algorithm-driven content can shape eating behaviors, body image, and mental health, especially for people navigating disordered eating, chronic conditions, and recovery.

We get specific about what makes the scroll so sticky: dopamine, attention, and the “slot machine” effect of endless short-form videos. We also talk about why it’s not only the hours on your phone that matter, but the content you’re being fed, including appearance-based posts, “what I eat in a day” videos, and anxiety-fueling health or parenting takes. Along the way, we name the shame spiral for what it is and share practical ways to audit your apps, notice your emotional response, and curate your feed with more intention.

Then we bring it to real life: eating with your phone. We explore how screens can pull you away from hunger, fullness, and satisfaction cues, while also acknowledging times when distraction can genuinely help, including meal anxiety, loneliness, and neurodivergent needs. Kelsey also introduces the “analog bag,” a simple, screen-free way to reconnect with yourself without turning it into another perfection project or overconsumption trend.

If you’re ready to feel more grounded with food and more protected online, listen now, then share this with a friend and leave a review. What part of your feed affects you most right now?


Show notes:

Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.


Resource links:

Alliance for Eating Disorders: https://www.allianceforeatingdisorders.com/ 

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/


How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand

Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)


Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)

If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.

Support the show

Health Mission, Sponsor, And Warnings

SPEAKER_00

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.

SPEAKER_03

Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

SPEAKER_00

Visit www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.com because healing happens here. Hi

Meet Kelsey And Espresso Banter

SPEAKER_00

everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast. Today we have with us Kelsey McNulty. She's a registered dietitian and the founder of True North Nutrition, where she offers virtual non-diet nutrition therapy. She supports clients navigating disordered eating, metabolic health, chronic conditions, sports nutrition, and body image concerns. Her work is rooted in helping people build a more peaceful, trusting relationship with food and their bodies, drawing from experience across medical, psychiatric, and academic settings. She's especially passionate about helping people reconnect with themselves, nourish fully, and live with confidence. Outside of work, she loves all things espresso, spending time in nature, embroidering, and embracing her inner cottage core self. Trigger warning for today, we are identifying the following triggers that will be discussed but are not limited to eating disorders, mental health, and social media. Listener discretion is advised. This show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01

Kelsey, we are so excited that you're here. Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. I am very excited to be a part of this podcast today. This is so wonderful.

SPEAKER_03

So I just have to ask espresso, like you love the shaking espresso at Starbucks Espresso? Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_01

I'm a little bougie.

SPEAKER_03

Tell me.

SPEAKER_01

I like my husband and I are like full-on espresso machine. Like it's it's like we literally dial our espresso in. I used to work at a coffee shop, so it makes sense. I used to work at seven stars. So now it's just like coffee is just life for me.

SPEAKER_03

Wow, I aspire to be you. So you speaking of social media, so you literally could be like you know how people always make their like I do my lattes at home and they're like very aesthetically pleasing. Like that's you.

SPEAKER_01

So espresso is great. The latte art, not so much. I made like I tried to make one of those hearts and it literally came out like this big. And so it was so tiny, and I was like, Oh, I tried sad.

SPEAKER_03

Oh my god. Well, if you ever put up content, I'd watch it. I love watching those videos. I'm like, wow, people are talented and it ain't me.

unknown

Maybe I'll try.

SPEAKER_03

You never know.

SPEAKER_01

Maybe I'll try after this.

SPEAKER_03

Lucy, let me know. Let me know because I will immediately be your first like for sure.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate that.

unknown

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00

Oh my god. That's funny.

Screen Time And Body Image

SPEAKER_00

Well, and that brings us into today because we're gonna talk a bit about social media screen time and you know, the impact that that can have on people's relationships with food, with their body. So because I know you brought this topic to us. So just curious of, you know, kind of where you got the idea and like why this feels like a topic that you're passionate about.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So lovely question. I actually, this is something that I hold like near and dear to me because it's something that I noticed was actually impacting me, just social media and like my attention span and everything else, especially with COVID and like how it just changed over time. So how it impacted me. But then as I was working with my clients as well, I also noticed how much it was impacting them. And, you know, especially now that I'm in my own practice and seeing, you know, I see kiddos, I see teenagers, I see adults, especially with the teenagers and the kiddos I see, how much social media is impacting them, what content they're seeing. So it was almost like, you know, it's something that impacted me with just again attention span and how much time I was spending on my phone, but also how is it impacting my clients? Which kind of, you know, gave me the idea of this is something that we should be talking about more and also maybe asking a bit more in our sessions to our clients.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I feel like that's such a good point too, that it impacts everybody because I have a friend who's pregnant right now. And when we were on the phone a few weeks ago, she said she feels like one of the best things that she did for her pregnancy for so many reasons was being off social media. And, you know, just like not because I know even when Jess was pregnant, I remember you saying to me, like, oh my gosh, my algorithm like knows I'm pregnant. Like, all I'm seeing are are videos geared towards pregnancy. And I just think like obviously it impacts younger people, you know, and like teenagers. We've talked about that, how like can't imagine growing up, you know, and like having access to that at such a young age, but that like it really does impact like people in every stage of life too.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. And it doesn't take into consideration, because like just like you were saying, Maggie, how it it somehow knew I was pregnant, which listen, I was screaming to everybody that I was pregnant, so it was totally fine seeing things. But I was also a very anxious pregnant person. And so seeing things of like five ways that you know that like something is wrong with your baby pregnant that you might not see. And I remember like texting Maggie, like I could cry right now thinking about it. I won't, everybody, don't worry. But like I remember being like, I don't want to see that something could be wrong. Like, don't tell me, and this is where like Maggie and I talk about it all the time. Social media is so great because you have so much information. So, like, if you're ever curious about something, it's there, but it's so heckin' bad because I don't want all that information. Like to my brain, where I like to stay in my bubble sometimes, I don't need to know all of the good and the bad, just let me stay where I am. And sometimes social media can give you too much information, in my opinion, and it can just be a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Oh my gosh. And you know, I feel like someone actually just talked about that not too long ago with me. Two people actually, who were also pregnant, felt the same way. And they were, they had their baby, healthy pregnancy, whatever it may be. And then she was like, Okay, he's not crying or he is crying. Well, what does this mean? And it was just like all this information was just overwhelming her brain, and she was like, I need to stop. Even her husband's like, You gotta stop. Yes, yeah, because it was just making her question everything. So it's like, okay, this is gonna go against this, and no matter what, am I doing the right thing? Who knows?

SPEAKER_03

Correct. Like, even the, I don't know if people would consider this social media, but even like the apps that are for you. Like, I feel like sometimes, speaking of pregnancy, then we can get off that topic. But like, I feel like when it comes to the apps that you can have, right? Of like what are the leaps that babies are having? When is a sleep regression happening, or how many times they're feeding or nothing, or things and like there's just so much that it does make you feel like, okay, maybe this can be helpful as to why they're crying. But then at the same time, like, if I'm not giving them solids by six months, does that mean I'm a bad mom? And are they now developmentally behind? Like it just really, or like my kid's not crawling by eight months. So is he, is there something wrong? Did I do there's so much blame that can happen? So I feel like whether it's apps or social media, like if I'm not doing the thing that someone else is doing, does that mean inherently something is bad about me? And am I like bad? And it's just sad. Just like, no. But like even me, I have those thoughts sometimes. And then as a therapist, I have to be like, shut up, you're fine.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yes, definitely. And you hit the nail on the head right there of you know, kind of looking at, okay, what is what am I getting out of this information? And the information is like information overload. Yes. And then you had just said a word that I really wanted to hook onto, which is like that shame. And that shame, blame, and guilt then kind of feeds into that, again, relationship with food and body, which is kind of like where this began too. And it's it's it's a rabbit hole. It's a rabbit hole, and then that's where the doom scrolling can impact it too. So, you know, that's why, again, this is such an interesting topic and one that I've I'm so very passionate about.

SPEAKER_03

I mean, it makes sense because it really does affect everything, right? Bringing it back to our topic and not pregnancy, like even when we talk about like recovery and our relationship with food and our bodies and things like that, even just seeing how many what I eat in a day video, or seeing, you know, all the different types of like this is my workout outfit, this is my work outfit, this is my lounge around the house, like all of these different things pop up, or like even us talking about coffee and like the way someone makes coffee at home, like everything is so in my air quotes perfectly pictured and set up that like I said, I could never make myself a latte or a coffee the way that people do on social media because I just don't think about it. And I also like I don't have all the tools. So I easily could be like, wow, I suck. I don't have all these things. And it just makes me like sad for everybody involved that it's it's very hard to separate that. So, like for you when you're working with clients, how do you help them separate the two because it's something I always talk about with clients, two opposite things can exist in the same space. I can be like, wow, I wish, and also be like, ain't me. How do you help clients see that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so kind of like you said, like existing in both realms, like, okay, this content still exists, and also how do I separate myself? Is that correct? Yes. Yeah. So I

Intentional Scrolling And Feed Curation

SPEAKER_01

think, you know, the first thing that I go over is just looking at also just like their screen time in general. And when we're looking at like just screen time, it may be the social media, but it could also be many other things as well, too. So it could just be like, okay, email and notifications and how much they're being bombarded by this information and just people always having access to them in that way. So that can also be that's like even another topic, too, that we could always go down too. But what I do is I look at, okay, what social media are you using first and foremost? So it could be Facebook, which has the reels, could be Instagram, which has the reels, Snapchat is now a very popular one again, which I know it was popular like you know years ago and now it's coming back. Um, TikTok and YouTube. So YouTube TV and YouTube Shorts. So we look at, okay, what are you looking at? What is the content and how is it making you feel? So when you're looking at it, is it making you feel neutral, making it feel like, okay, is it questioning? Are you questioning something that's coming up? So just trying to get dig a little bit deeper into what, how is the brain receiving this? What are we looking at, and how are you then responding slash reacting to it? Because those can both be two different things, too. And then from there, what we do is kind of look at well, these things will always exist. And I I always love to kind of talk about with like providers, but also clients too. Like, we're all victims to diet culture and this information on a daily basis. It's just what society tends to kind of glorify this. And it's all in how you have the coping mechanisms in place and your relationship to it and how you then respond to react to it. So if that's the case and you feel like, okay, these things can still exist because they're they're probably never gonna go away. How can we acknowledge those things being there and let's learn coping mechanisms, red flags? How can we look into is it AI? Is it something that's curated? Is it the highlight reel? Let's kind of look at it critically and at the same time, let's make you feel comfy within yourself and also your life too. So if that is, you know, how you are taking care of self, whether that be like, okay, I just saw a perfect example yesterday, which made me think about this podcast episode. Someone made a beautiful short film about what it's like to wake up and look at TikTok and see what I eat in a day. Oh, if you have gray hair, I just want to say, like, I am so sorry, but here's how I got rid of my gray hair. If you have crow's feet, here's what you should do. If you have lines in your chest, well, you shouldn't be lying on your side when you're sleeping. And it's like you could see all of the information and then just all of the distress that was like weighing down on her. And she she depicted it in such a beautiful way. If we're if we're seeing that and how much information is just being like bombarded and thrown at you, okay, let's try to then curate in some way, shape, or form how we work with our social media. Is it reducing screen time, which is something that I always recommend? And also, is it then curating your algorithm? Is it changing the information you're seeing, trying to work with it in a way that works for you? So that's kind of how I work with it is like, what is happening with social media? How are we using it? And is there any intention behind what we're doing? How can we then make you feel comfy, whether it be with social media or how you're responding to these things? Does that answer your question?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, because I feel like it's hard for people to take what they're watching and leave it. So being able to say, like, okay, this is what they eat in a day, this is what they're doing in a day, like how many errands they're running, like the live a day in the life with me, like whatever it is. Which, like, those ones always make me laugh because you watch them like a wake up in the morning and it's like obviously you know they're wake up, they're setting up a tripod, they're putting their phone on, they're the getting the lights, and then what like you know it's curated. Like you're not waking up and the phone's just there. You know what I mean? So, like it's it is interesting and it is difficult, and I understand that of how hard it is to see these things and not just to be like, okay, that's them. This is my life. And so it is just, you know, so yes, it did answer because I think it it is something that we see that, like, you know, all this digital input shapes us in a different way and like how to separate so it doesn't have to.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yes.

Algorithms, Appearance Content, And Shame

SPEAKER_01

And that actually brought me to something that I was thinking about the other day. I looked at a few articles and it they found that it's actually not necessarily the amount of screen time, but it's the content that somebody is looking at that makes the biggest difference, especially when it comes to eating behaviors and body image. So even if you are scrolling for let's say, I think I saw on average it was like four hours a day with screen social media, but screen time in general is about seven hours a day for the average American. So if we think about that and then how much social media someone is kind of like looking at and being a part of, it's the content that they're absorbing and looking at that makes the biggest difference versus the amount of time that they see someone's on their phone.

SPEAKER_00

That's a wild statistic though, still. Seven hours.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. In my head though, what are they and I don't know if you can answer this question, but like what is identified or what is defined as screen time? Because like for us, is that also our Zoom meetings? Like it because then I can understand, yeah, if I'm having seven one-hour sessions a day, I'm definitely upping more than that seven hours, you know, of screen time because then I am on social media, watching TV, whatever have you, on a FaceTime call. Like I get that, but are they including like work calls in that? You know what I mean? Like, I'm so curious.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I think it was more so not necessarily like us doing this, but it was more so the amount of time that is used, let's say, on your email outside of work time and notifications and how much they're kind of like looking at the computer to, I don't know, look into I don't know, doing something better with their room or whatever it may be. So it's like kind of looking at things outside of work. I can look back at it for you, but that was kind of the biggest thing that I'd seen is like it's not necessarily the work of us looking at the computer, it's the entertainment that we're kind of looking for in that screen time, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, that makes sense and that makes things a whole lot worse because if you're if you think about it, right? If you are on the computer for seven hours of work and then you have the additional four plus hours of screen time, you know. I always think I don't have enough hours in a day, but that makes me think, what am I doing with my heckin' day? Like if that's wow. Yeah, that's sickening.

SPEAKER_01

So interesting though. Yeah. Have you guys ever looked at like how much screen time or social media time you have? Oh, I actively avoid. Yeah. I'm sorry. I looked at it and I guess. Right? I that's what I had I had to do. Like, I forget when it was. Probably a year ago. A year ago, I looked at my screen time and I felt like, oh my gosh, there's so much of my time looking at this thing. It was scary.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't want to look because I I also know because I know we were talking about this before we started recording, but like we obviously have Instagram and TikTok and stuff for the podcast. And I just know like there are days where I'll say to Jess, like, hey, I'm gonna sit for you know an hour or two and just like schedule a bunch of of reels and like you know, work on a bunch of stuff. And like it's very time consuming. So I'm like, I'm sure my level of screen time is really high, like personally, but then you add all of that on. Like, I know doing stuff for the podcast Instagram takes up a ton of time too.

SPEAKER_01

Oh yeah, oh yeah. I can imagine, like you said, it's something that we can't necessarily like we totally could, right? Like we totally get rid of social media and just kind of like do whatever we need to do during the day, but it's also just such a big part of you know, our jobs now, and also how we connect and how we share information, which is also important. So, again, I feel like it's that like, okay, what is the intention behind what we're doing? That's the biggest overarching thing.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Intention changes so much, it really does. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01

As especially as it like relates to again, the body image that we see or just kind of the the appearance-based pieces of social media. It's all based on what's the intention behind my action of looking at these things, because the algorithms, I think what they're finding too is that those who've created these social media platforms, they're searching for what is going to give them the highest engagement, and uh-huh, what is going to give them the highest engagement, it's going to be the appearance-based content. They found that it is more likes, more shares, more watch time. And so now they're going to, even if you set up your algorithm in such a lovely way, they're going to still push the agenda of you should be better. You should get X, you know, thing done to make you feel better because everybody else is doing it. So it's very much so that algorithm trying to work against whatever you've kind of put in for yourself to kind of hold that boundary with yourself. It's very tricky.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've even seen that with our own content. Like, we've been putting our faces on our content way more in the past couple of months than we have been. And like we've seen the engagement increase. So it's like, you know, it exactly like you said, it's like the appearance-based content. Like, when it does have somebody's appearance in it, like it does reach a lot more people, too.

SPEAKER_03

Yes. And I can understand to a certain extent, right? Like, you can feel more connected to content if you see a person versus just like a carousel and things like that, right? Like it's it's I can understand how it could feel more personal and it then leaves open such a vulnerable state of people see you, people judge, people like, you know, they can say do whatever. So it is, you know, even taking it for that uh stance, right? People also don't recognize uh like the vulnerability with social media as the creator and as the recipient. And I don't think like I I don't know if there's enough conversation even about that. Because people do, right? It's hard for us to take it in and to see that there's so much negativity that we can take from something and uh the person putting out content. People are horrific in comment sections. Like Maggie just sent me this thing, and it was so beautifully done. But there was this bridal boutique and how it was this one bride in a smaller body, and the comments were like, Oh my god, this dress is amazing. It's so unique. You've never seen anything like it. Then there was a model with it lived in a larger body. You should go to the gym. What are you doing? Why is she wearing that wedding dress? And I it's like why? So it's hard on like either way, because you know, people are trying to be body positive or trying to be body neutral, whatever the language is or the movement that that individual is trying to project. And it's like it's just so uh mind-boggling what social media does on either end.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And like you said, I think both of you had said this too. Like it's just sad. Yeah. Sad that it's gotten to this point, and it's never it's something that's not going to be out of our lives. So how do we exist in a space where it still exists, but also make sure we kind of protect our own peace? Because I mean, again, it's just bombarding us constantly. Yeah. So yeah, that's that's sad. That's sad for that to be the case. And for it makes people feel like they can say whatever they want because they're not face to face to somebody. They would probably never say that to somebody if they were in the same room with them ever.

SPEAKER_03

No, it just I don't understand. Like to me, when I see comments, I'm like that, like that, I'm like, where do you get I don't know if it's courage, I don't know if it's you got a pair of I don't know what to say to make this uh PG, but like what because there's a lot of non-PG things I want to say about it, but like how do you have the gumption? Yes, those are good words to say these things to individuals, right? I just it it just it absolutely blows my mind.

Dopamine Slot Machine And Doomscrolling

SPEAKER_03

But a a question I have for you too is that like you know, with the clientele that we work with and knowing about how much time we spend on our phones, one of the times that we spend a lot of time on our phone is during a meal, right? Like if we think about, oh, like I'm on my lunch break, I'm doing all these different things, or I'm just like sitting at home with my cup of coffee eating breakfast, right? And this content pops up. How have you seen that affect clients while they're eating and on their phone, like scrolling through social media? You know, is that affecting our awareness during meals? Like, and what would you say are there pros and cons with taking in this content while they're eating?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. So I think there's kind of like that the two parts. So if I forget to answer one of them, you just let me know.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. I know I'm the worst. I always to ask like 17 different questions at the same time. So I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh, no, you are fine. I'm like my brain was falling, but I'm like, if I get too deep into what I'm saying, I want to forget. So no, this is such a lovely question. And I feel like to even there's one thing that when I bring up to even like just talk about first before we even get into how it may impact like awareness and hunger and fullness, and it's kind of like what our brains do when it's seeing this content. And so we have that lovely word dopamine. So when I say the word dopamine, what is the first thing that pops into your head? Happy, yeah. Yeah, happy, like energy, yeah, yep. Like, okay, like a happy feel-good chemical, right? What's so interesting though is that dopamine's actually just one part of the equation. Like, of course, we have endorphins, we have serotonin, but dopamine is actually the most researched neurotransmitter hormone in the brain. So there's still more that needs to be done, but because of how much it impacts our relationship with like screens and what it happens with screens, that's when they've looked into it. So dopamine gets released each time we are scrolling. So think of like even like a small scroll on like TikTok or Instagram that is releasing some sort of dopamine. And what dopamine does is yes, it is gonna be like a feel-good chemical, but what was mind-blowing to me, because I didn't know this until I had like looked into it, it's actually involved in memory, learning and attention.

SPEAKER_02

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01

And it's like a reinforcement, like a reward-seeking, reinforced kind of neurotransmitter, too. So it's like, okay, it's not just a feel-good chemical, but it's a reinforcement reward-based system, which I'll go into because it relates to this. Learning memory. So each time someone had actually described it as like a slot machine. Okay. So each time, like if you're doing a slot machine, it's a gamble if you're actually going to win or lose. It's gonna be a gamble if you're gonna get money or lose money. Yeah, it's the same thing with scrolling. Each time you scroll, dopamine is being released because, like, ooh, what's gonna what's gonna happen next? What should I do next? Will this be good? Will this be bad? So if you're scrolling, it's released. Ooh, this makes me feel good. Reward. Scroll again, dopamine release. Ooh, this doesn't feel good. Let's find something else that makes me feel good. So it's almost like it's each time you're scrolling, it's being released. Which then makes it habitual because it's a reward-based system. Your brain is gonna be like, ooh, I want more. So it's gonna continue to try to find those like novel and entertaining things for you each time, which I'm sure that all of us have done this. Have you gotten into like that doom scrolling, like scrolling just loop where you're like, I can't tear my eyes away from the phone? Oh, yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_00

Especially, I don't look like oh sorry, I was gonna say, and I'll, you know, I'll admit this too, like like looking forward to it. Like there's like there have been times where I'm like, oh, okay, I'm gonna like go into bed and like, you know, like go on Instagram for a little bit and like excited to be like, okay, I get to like finally relax for the day and like associate that with relaxation.

SPEAKER_01

Totally, totally. And what's so interesting, and I will admit this too, because this is where I found, and this is why I'm so passionate about this topic. I was finding I was scrolling when I was brushing my teeth. I was scrolling when I was doing my hair and blow drying my hair. I was scrolling when I was, I don't know, walking to my car. And then I realized that one day, I'm like, why? I can exist, like I can look up and look at the sky. Like someone even said on one of their messages, they were like, I never knew what my ceiling looked like until I actually put my phone down. They're like, I had never looked up and saw a hole in the wall. There's a muck there that I never knew existed, but they're always looking down. So interesting. But again, that's kind of why as it relates to like the hunger and fullness, think about if your phone again is trying to kind of give you that reward system. The more outward our attention is, the less inward it's going to kind of be. So there's less of that intention and awareness of what your body is telling you. So it's like, okay, if we're scrolling on our phone, we're paying attention to this, we're not paying attention to this. So it makes the intention behind kind of what we're doing in the meal and what our body is telling us much quieter. So that's where even sometimes the fullness can come from of like, okay, we may not feel like we're full because we're not recognizing what's in front of us. So it can kind of impact it in that way

Eating With Screens: Pros And Cons

SPEAKER_01

where you may not recognize your hunger or fullness cues. And in that same vein, it's also sometimes, you know, good for some clients to be distracted during mealtimes because it may help with anxiety around meals, depending on what's going on. Neurodiversity, that's a big piece too, where distraction during meals is very helpful. Or if someone is feeling lonely and they might not have somebody to enjoy the meal with, screen time or even looking at social media, it's it's nothing that is going to be like perfect mindfulness. Perfect mindfulness is never the goal. It's more so what it what exactly are we using this for? And is it a tool that can help you? So I'm wondering if that answered the first part of your question, Jess.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

unknown

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03

Honestly, I have to think about it. I'm like, I don't even remember what my first part or my second part was the question. But honestly, all of it sounded great. So I'm gonna go with the yes.

SPEAKER_01

Beautiful, beautiful. Yeah. And again, there's like pros and cons, right? Like, just like we were talking about. There's pros because if you're if you are, you know, having a phone in front of you, it's gonna help those pieces with distraction. Um, it can help an appetite slow, especially again, thinking about like neurodiversity and the lack of interoception, which is just that lack of the ability to tell if you're feeling hungry or full, that can help. It can just also just work with like, okay, the cons as well. There can be cons because it may make us less attuned to our body. It may make us feel less satisfied, disconnection with maybe even others at the table. If we're not just alone and we're with others and we're looking at our phone, that can create more disconnection too. So that's that piece there. But then if we're seeing content again about what I eat in a day, you should be eating X, Y, and Z. And there's that wonderful word, should. So if you hear that word, okay, well, why?

SPEAKER_03

I hate that word. Who's telling me this? Whenever a client says it, I'm like, let's try again. Like Maggie always said, whenever a client says it, Maggie and I are doing a joint session, she'll be like, Oh, you know, Jess hates that word, and I'll just be sitting there like twitching. I'm like, can we try this again? Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01

So true though. That word's like the cunchs in the woods, where are they coming from? Exactly.

SPEAKER_03

I agree.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Would you recommend for a client, like, I don't know if one is better than the other or if they're kind of equal, instead of scrolling, if it's like watching a YouTube video, like it's still a screen time, but like, is or if you put on like because I know on TikTok you can watch like a 10-minute video. So, like, would like a prolonged be better than a scroll? Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_01

So it's it's something where it's not like you are making your attention span shorter and shorter, where your window of tolerance for dopamine is like this small now. Yeah, yeah. If you are watching a video that does or listen to a lovely podcast, and power. Um, if you're doing one of those things where it is longer, that actually is going to be far more beneficial than like even scrolling. And again, it's that benefit, not like doing anything wrong, but you can curate your social media to make it. I know you said cottage core before, but like making things up to what you want to see on your social media. It could be cozy talk, which is another thing on TikTok too, where it's all cozy about candles and making things feel comfy. But it again, it's still going to be that short-term reward system. So longer, longer term does tend to do a little bit better for the clients that I also see as well when we talk about it.

unknown

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I'm glad we're we're talking about like both the pros and cons too, because something that I've talked about with clients before is like when they feel really stressed cooking or feel really stressed, like going into a meal, of like one of the ways that we can stimulate like rest and digest or the parasympathetic nervous system is laughter. So I'll always say, like, well, do you have a comedian that you like? Because that's something like that's a lot of the content that I watch is like I'll watch, you know, old clips of comedians that I like. I'm like, what would it be like to put that on a couple minutes before a meal and like you know, start to laugh, stimulate rest and digest, and like then try and go into your meal and see what your cues are like. So I think it's important for us to see, like, of course, there's a lot of cons, like we've said, but that like there's also ways where this could be used to be really helpful for somebody's like stress levels and relationship with food too.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Oh, how cool though. I love that you shared that because that is such a cool way to work with that. So I'm gonna take that little nugget of information too.

SPEAKER_03

That's why I love her because she just has the best little ideas all the time. And I just she's constantly my learning nugget. I'm always like, Mags, what articles have you read today? Can you teach me so much? She is my encyclopedia. My very own chat GBT is Maggie Lafaber.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing. I wanted

Analog Bags And Offline Joy

SPEAKER_01

to see. Did you want me to talk about the analog bags? Yes, I was just gonna bring that up. Okay, yeah. Yeah, explain this. Yeah, okay, perfect. So analog bags act the reason I brought these up before when we were kind of talking about analog or just even just in general, like what can you do when we were talking before hopping on here today? It came up, god, I'm trying to think about why. Well, it came up on my social media, to be quite honest. I think it was because of cozy talk, to be honest. Again, I was trying to curate my own and see what it came up with, and analog bags actually came up. So there's this content creator called her name is Sierra Campbell, and she actually created the idea of the analog bag. Nothing novel, like I think, Maggie, like you were even saying, like it just it's something that we grew up with, but we've just been so far removed from. And what an analog bag usually is, is like you have a bag, like a tote usually, and you just fill it with things that you feel like will be entertaining that are screen free. So it could be a book or two, it could be a sewing project or a knitting project, it could be a coloring book. Like if you have like a coloring book, Sudoku little book that you can do, something where you're journaling, you can make it whatever you want. And so that's why it's like analog. You're something there's something there that is not with a screen or with technology, it's something to get you removed from your phone. So if you feel the desire to pick up your phone, okay, I'm gonna pick up my book first and see how it goes and see if it feels better to do that. So that in turn reduces screen time. So that's a lovely analog bag. So it sounds like have either of you heard of that before?

SPEAKER_00

Just from you. No, no, no. I had to Google it when you had written it in your email to us. I'm like, I have no idea what this is. But then when I was looking it up, yeah, I had like this weird feeling, because I was like, okay, on one hand, for generations that grew up like with social media their whole life, I'm like, I could totally see like where this could stem. But for me, it brought up a lot of sadness because it just like felt very nostalgic. I was like, oh, I I know exactly what this likes, you know. Like I had bags as a kid like this that I would fill with stuff, and I always had stuff with me, I always had a book with me. So I can like see the the pros to it, but it just it did, it didn't make me feel sad, was like the the main kind of thing that I thought.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. And it's it it makes sense though, because I I feel like I can resonate with that so well, and I'm sure you can too, Jess, with like, okay, I remember being with like my parents and they always had like things for us to do. Or like if I went out with my cousin, she would bring a book or she would bring a coloring book and we would have something to do just in case, right? Or we could just sit in a bookshop and just hang out, but our phones didn't need to be.

SPEAKER_03

We didn't have phones, so no, I didn't get my first cell phone till I was 16. And even then, like I didn't have texting, it was only calls, like there were no apps, it was just like cute little flip phone. I remember it. Like this whole, like, there was nothing of there was not no. If you needed me, you called my house line.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, for a very long time. That's becoming popular. I don't know if you've either of you have actually heard that. No, yeah, I I don't know what it's called, so you're gonna have to see, and I'll look it up too. But people are now making their phones like into landline phones. There's a way for you to do that.

SPEAKER_00

Really?

SPEAKER_03

Wow, that's so interesting. I saw this thing um on the you know, the pros of social media. I saw this. Your description, you're explaining the analog bags made me think of this. There's this mom that made her home back like a 90s household for a week. So there was no phones. It was like all the kids had to give their phones, they only had TV for a certain amount of time, they only had one computer, they had to get rid of their laptops, like there was something crazy. Not crazy in the sense of like, what, because that's how we grew up with, but crazy in the sense of like she brought it back. I have to, if I find it, I'm gonna send it to you guys. But it was like the kids you could just hear in the background of like, what you want us to do? What? Like, oh my god, like and they were like, Well, how are we gonna call you if like we're at our friend's house and it's like you can ask your friend for like to borrow their phone or like you could do this, like made it a hundred percent like we're going, we're throwing it back to the nineties, to like 1996. And it was just so and I think my friend's school even did this where it was like we're throwing it back to the 90s, so like if we needed something done like in like their teaching for like a day, it was what they did in the 90s, and I just love that because it's like uh you can survive without these things, like let us show you what it was back in the archaic times when you don't have things like at the at the tip of your finger. So, like the analog bags of like, yes, you can have things that don't have to do with your phone, but also bringing it back into the household of like you didn't always have screens for every second of your life and like having kids live through that. I love like I love that.

SPEAKER_01

That is so cool, and it makes me want to cry because I want to be back there. I'm like, no, I can't just jump in there.

SPEAKER_03

I know, like, how do I give back, right? Because like, and I say to clients all the time, I could not, I don't, I high school with this level of social media, middle school with this level of social media, gag. No, no, no, I Uno reverse. I thank you a good day. Like, absolutely not. Like, I give kids a lot of credit.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yes, but oh my god, I could not do it.

SPEAKER_03

I respectfully decline and disrespectfully decline, like, absolutely not what I like to enjoy or participate in that. But yeah, so something Christopher will be going through is a day in the 90s. Let me tell you, when he's old enough, he will be experiencing that for sure.

SPEAKER_01

Oh I love that because well, it's so interesting because I heard too that like it makes sense for all of us to want that and have that nostalgia because we know what it was like, yeah. And so all of these kiddos have no idea unless that's something that their parents or guardians do. Otherwise, they just know that just tech and TV and all these things are just so accessible. So they don't know another way to do it. So analog bags are a way to do it. I will say, I think that you would you would kind of ask the question, like, okay, are there there are pros to it again for pros and cons today? Pros to analog bags, but also there can be cons as well. So uh, which is also something I wanted to highlight too. And like anything in media and society, they're gonna take something and run with it. And so they kind of made it into like this wellness rule of like how should I say it? They're like, Well, you should be consuming X, Y, and Z. You should make sure that you have these things in your bag. So go out and buy these things. So it's almost like overconsumption again. God forbid, we use anything that we have, buy a new tote, buy all these new things, make sure that you buy the best and blah, blah, blah, whatever. So it's almost like it's dipping its toe into overconsumption again and making it into like another wellness trend. So it's like, and that's annoying because again, it's not gonna work for everyone either. Again, somebody who's neurodivergent, they may not want to use an analog bag and it may not work for them, and that's okay. Let's see if there's something else we can use if someone doesn't have the time to do it or the resources to do it. So it's like, again, what are we trying to make it perfect, but that doesn't exist? So, how can we make it work for you in the best way possible?

SPEAKER_03

So,

Flexible Language And Experiment Mindset

SPEAKER_03

I guess a question I have for you then, and I'm a big Maggie and I are like very big proponents on language, right? And so, like in your professional opinion, what would be like supportive language in doing something like an analog bag or even like whatever have you? So you can look at someone's like as the creator, what would be positive language or neutral language of like this is what you can have, but you don't have to copy me to have it? So, like the recipient doesn't have to think, well, if I don't have this bag, if I don't have that book, if I don't have this, they don't feel the pressure of perfection and they more so are leaning into like. Like the content rather than the context. I don't know if that was the right way to say that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01

No, let me know, let me know if I have this correct. So you're kind of thinking like, okay, instead of making someone feel like you have to do it in the way that I'm doing it, how can we make it work for you? Bingo. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, perfect. So yeah, so honestly, what I what I've done, and I've done this with a couple of clients now, as it works for like analog bags, yeah, but I don't use that verbiage. I actually reflect with them first of like, think of things that you had either that you do that don't involve your screen and what are they? If they're let's say an adult and they had gone through a time in their lives where they did do something that wasn't screen time, okay, what did you love to do when you're a kiddo? And what did that bring about feeling-wise? So if it was coloring in a coloring book, if it was like listening to some type of music, or I don't know, going for a walk and just like pointing out like I spy, like doing something with somebody or for yourself, like let's make a list of those things. And then if it's something that we can bring with you wherever, let's throw some of those things in a bag. Yeah. So it's not necessarily using the verbiage of like analog bag, but it's more of like, let's reflect on like let's say what Maggie and Jess have done that makes them happy. And how can we then put that into a bag? Or it could be a, I know we have we have stop and shop here in New England, but like we have stop and shop bag, a grocery bag, or a tote that you have that you really like or don't like. Throw it in there, bring it with you wherever you go, see how that goes. And if it sucks, it sucks. I'm gonna try something different. So it's just an experiment. So I usually use that word of like experiment, but if it doesn't work, totally fine. Let's figure out what else we can do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

I love that. Because I think, you know, one of the things that we've talked about today, and I think like a big theme with social media is people have really great ideas, uh, but then people uh the viewer then feels like they need to absolutely replicate to a T or else it doesn't it it doesn't count, so to speak. So I wanted I was curious about your opinion on like what language, you know, content creators could use because obviously creating the content, you don't some people might not think that people are going to take it as like I need to be identical to the creator to then receive it and do it and have the same effect. So I think if we can be mindful of the language we use to take off that hidden pressure that the recipient needs to do it exactly the same way, I'm just I think that could also be helpful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely. And that's what I think Sierra Campbell does really well with. She actually goes into like, I was looking at a couple of her videos. This was a a little while back, a couple months ago, of people are making it into that wellness trend. And she was getting frustrated because she brought up this bag and was like, there's really no right or wrong way to do this. So why is this being turned into this? Let's just put things in here that make you feel good and just feel like they kind of make your brain happy. Yeah. So I'm trying to figure out the verbiage that could be used in that way for content creators, but I think it's more so just about like, let's be flexible, let's just see what makes you happy. And there's no right or wrong way to do this. It's just whatever helps with just feeling like you're more connected. I think connection is that biggest piece there that also makes you feel good. Love.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you for that. Thank you. Of course.

SPEAKER_00

We

Wrap-Up And Where To Connect

SPEAKER_00

are gonna need to schedule a part two because I feel like there's so much more that I want to ask you and so much more I want to talk about. But this is such a great topic. So thank you so much for like all of your time today and everything that you shared. So helpful.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Thank you. And you know, thank you so much for you know inviting me onto the podcast. This is so wonderful to be a part of this and just to have this lovely conversation with you both. So thank you again. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah, thank you to everybody listening to. We will definitely do a part two. So if you have any questions for Kelsey on this topic, send it over to us and we will make sure to post True North Nutrition as well. So if you want to get connected with Kelsey, you'll be able to do that on our socials.

SPEAKER_03

Wonderful. Amazing. So much. Well, thank you, everybody, and thank you, Kelsey. And we will catch you guys on the next one. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_00

We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_03

If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a rating, and comment and share with anyone else you may feel will benefit.