Beyond The Disorder: Finding Yourself Again

A diagnosis can explain what you’re going through, but it should never get to decide who you are. We’re joined by Brianna Mainprize, a registered psychotherapist from Ontario, Canada, whose work in eating disorder recovery is grounded in both clinical experience and her own healing journey. Together, we dig into the moment many people quietly hit: when “I have anxiety” turns into “I am anxiety,” or when “I struggle with an eating disorder” starts to feel like the only identity that fits.

We talk about the signs your mental health label is swallowing your sense of self, including language shifts, life decisions that get filtered through the diagnosis, and social reinforcement from diet culture, social media, sports, and perfectionism. We also unpack why letting go can feel terrifying even when the struggle is painful, because the brain often chooses familiar chaos over unfamiliar peace.

You’ll hear practical tools you can use right away, like Brianna’s Identity Pie Chart exercise to map the parts of you that exist now, the parts you’ve lost, and the parts you want to build. We also explore how to support a child, partner, or friend without reinforcing the illness, why curiosity beats judgment, and how shame blocks connection and recovery. For long-term eating disorder patterns, Brianna shares a powerful strategy: separating yourself from the eating disorder voice by naming it, so you can notice thoughts without automatically obeying them.

If you’re working on body image, eating disorder treatment, anxiety, OCD tendencies, or perfectionism, this conversation brings you back to the bigger goal: building an identity rooted in values, interests, and relationships. Subscribe to Nourish And Empower, share this with someone who needs hope, and leave a review telling us what part of your identity you want to reclaim.

Show notes:

Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.

Resource links:

Alliance for Eating Disorders: https://www.allianceforeatingdisorders.com/ 

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/

How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand

Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)

Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)

If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.

Transcript

Mission Sponsor Guest And Trigger Warning

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Their expert team works with you to achieve recovery and avoid the need for higher levels of care. Visit www.hilltopbehavioralhealth.com because healing happens here.

SPEAKER_00 0:45

Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast. Our guest today is Brianna Main Prize, a registered psychotherapist from Ontario, Canada, whose work is rooted in both professional expertise and lived experience. Brianna's journey into the mental health field began with her own struggles. After being diagnosed with an eating disorder at 13, she spent years navigating recovery, relapse, and ultimately healing by the age of 21. That experience became the foundation of the work she does today. With over 12 years in the mental health space, including inpatient, outpatient, and now private practice, Brianna helps individuals work through food and body image challenges, self-worth, perfectionism, relationship dynamics, and people-pleasing tendencies. Her perspective is honest, compassionate, and deeply relatable. Trigger warning for today. Listener discretion is advised. This show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes. Brianna, welcome.

SPEAKER_02 2:08

Hi, thank you so much for having me today.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Oh my God, thanks for coming. And I'm all the way from Canada. Like you're like literally came to the States, but like, thanks for coming all the way from Canada.

SPEAKER_02 2:19

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

Yeah, no, thank you. This is we've interviewed a few other providers in Canada over the years, actually. So it's always so fun to get to like just, you know, get to meet people from all around the world doing this same work, which is really it's like so nice for us.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah, it's exciting.

SPEAKER_02 2:39

Yeah, yeah, it's so awesome to like connect and relate and like share those experiences. And yeah, yeah, happy to be here.

Identity Lost Inside A Diagnosis

SPEAKER_01 2:48

Awesome. Yeah. And so today's topic, we're really gonna talk about finding someone's identity outside of their eating disorder or mental health diagnosis. And just curious if you could share a little bit of you know how that topic kind of presents in your work.

SPEAKER_02 3:09

I think it's something that I noticed like with my own personal journey, like reflecting back on some of my struggles throughout my story. My identity is something that I really lost within my eating disorder. And something that really helped me recover was rediscovering my identity, who I was, what that meant, and how can I continue to evolve and adapt as I grow as a human and experience different things. And so that's always stuck with me. And then now in the work that I do, it's always a theme that I'm like thinking of and noticing and like pulling from with my clients, where it doesn't matter if it's an eating disorder or another mental health struggle. As humans, we all have that commonality, is our identity. Yeah. And I think people don't fully know what that means and how that does play a role into our day-to-day and who we are as a person and also how we show up.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

So, so true. And it's so interesting you say that too about like it's not just like everyone has their own struggles and what your identity is based on your own struggle. And I don't think people recognize that a lot. Of if you're anxious, someone might identify as anxiety, right? Or depression, or you know, being someone who like maybe doesn't have good luck a lot of the times, like, or someone pessimistic, right? Like it doesn't have to be even like a diagnosis of any sorts, like, oh, well, I'm always the pessimist, oh, always the optimist, whatever have you. And it's like people do make that their entire being of who they are. And I don't think people necessarily connect all of that together.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Yeah, for for sure, right? Like the patterns and the way that we are thinking and how we describe ourselves or how we tend to label ourselves, it can get very intertwined with our identity and we don't even notice it.

SPEAKER_04 5:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

What would you say are some of those signs when there is someone's identity and their diagnoses or or struggles becoming intertwined? What are the signs of that occurring, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Well, I think the a really good sign, it's the shift in the language, which Jess kind of just said she's an example there, right? Where uh the language shift is it goes from experience to identity. So I have anxiety versus I am an anxious person, like we're attaching to that label, or I struggle with an eating disorder, can sometimes become this is just who I am. And I find it so interesting with that language shift because we don't tend to do that with other medical illnesses or conditions. We don't really hear people say, like, I am diabetes, it's I have diabetes, or I am PCOS, it's no, I have PCOS, right? So I can't like language shift is so important.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

It's the same thing with cancer. No one's like, I am cancer. It's like, no, I have a certain type of cancer or whatever. And I always love bringing the medical into it. So I'm so glad that you did because I don't understand why it's so different. The way that we view or speak about a diagnosis or something we're struggling with medically versus mentally.

SPEAKER_02 6:31

Yeah. Yeah, like it's something that is so strange that we tend to do, and I think it is just that evidence of how it does get entangled with our identity. And I think another thing we start to see with that as well is our life decisions are filtered through the diagnosis, that label. It's almost like that diagnosis or the struggle becomes a filter for how we like for how someone may see themselves, how they move through their day, or even how they show up in their relationships.

SPEAKER_01 7:07

And I I feel like I've also seen the relationships around somebody shift too, because especially in my work as a dietitian, I oftentimes have this conversation with clients where they'll say, like, but I'm known to be the like quote unquote healthy friend, right? Or I'm known to be the person that's always in the gym. And other people I like identify that onto me. And so it almost reminds me of like, it's like, well, what came first, the chicken or the egg? It's like there's sort of this self-identification happening, but then there's also identification coming from other people, and like one is sort of feeding into the other of like, well, now I have to maintain this image of being this person that other people expect me to be, and like the cycle keeps turning. Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

And I think that then kind of rolls into the next sign that we notice, which is like that social reinforcement, which is like we're getting that external validation from these patterns or behaviors that are actually problematic. So, like we see this a lot with like eating disorders, anxiety, OCD, perfectionist tendencies, like things like social media, diet culture, performance-based jobs, sports, or hobbies. Sometimes these things get intertwined with our identity because they encourage and reinforce those unhealthy patterns.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

And it's hard, right? Oh, what were you gonna say? Go, go. No, no, you go on. I was just gonna say, like, and it's hard too, because right, I'm even thinking another example that has nothing to do with mental health, but like that personality trait or characteristic that then becomes your identity. Like, are you the mom of the group, right? Like your your group of girlfriends, and like you then almost feel the pressure of being like, okay, do I have the band aids who like everyone holds hands? We're like walking across the street, like, and it's like, okay, you're with your group of girlfriends who are like 20 years old, but you're the mom of the group. So like you then feel this pressure. And I think with social media, like you're saying, and with this sense of like now this is who you are, how much of these characteristics are we forcing to stay because you finally see me and you see me in this one role. So now I have to still be seen. So let me maintain the one area I know that I am. So then I'm always feeling fulfilled in that area. And like, how much of the need of just connection is actually causing us to stay in like this identity that we don't need, right? Like, and we see that with eating disorders. Am I sick enough? And if I'm not sick enough, then you won't show that you care about me. And then the process keeps going, right? So, like it is interesting how like that external, like you said, like reassurance and validation, how much of that is fueling us to force ourselves to be a person that maybe we don't even want to be just because of what we're receiving.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

Yeah, like the experiences that we have because we're acting this way, because we're doing these things, it's like we're getting that validation, that reassurance, that sense of connection.

SPEAKER_04 10:10

Yeah.

Validation Comfort And Familiar Chaos

SPEAKER_02 10:11

And it can be so just easily intertwined, or it's like we just adopt that and we're like, well, that's who I need to be to be loved. That's who I need to be to get my needs met, to be cared for, to get accepted. Yeah. And I think, like, with that sense too, because we have that like, okay, well, this is the type of person I need to be to have these connections and to have my needs met. We then start to create an emotional attachment to the struggle where it's almost difficult to imagine our life without it. Because we've lived at it for so long, we've lived in this dynamic that we're like, well, if I lose this, what else am I going to lose? And I think that thought it creates so much fear where it's almost like, is letting go, does that feel scarier than the suffering you have from the illness or struggle?

SPEAKER_01 11:08

What would be an example of that?

SPEAKER_02 11:11

Yeah, I would say like a really common one would be I get attached to it because I know what to do. I know what to do when I feel this way. I feel in control when I move this way because I've done this for so long. This is who I've been for so long. So I'm attached to that because the idea or the concept of not being this way, it's uncertain. And as humans, like we don't like that uncertainty. That can totally feel scary. Right.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

So it's like a safety net or a comfort zone.

SPEAKER_02 11:43

Yeah. Yeah. Just like a lot of people do with anything, right? We get attached to things that we know don't serve us or aren't good for us. But we're like, but I don't know what it would be like to not do that, to not have that.

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yeah. Again, I see that a lot in people's relationships with food of just like the desire for predictability. Yeah. And like the comfort that predictability can bring, and how, you know, oftentimes in the recovery process, like it comes with a lot of uncertainty. And we don't know, you know, exactly what to expect and like the difficulty of not being able to have that control.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Yeah. Yeah. And I think that control, it's just it's so comforting for us as humans, right? It gives us that sense of like safety or survival, and that's really what our brains are wired for.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yeah. Because especially when you know like the negatives or like the damage, uh, like eating disorders, for example, right? You know what's going to happen if you engage in the behavior. You don't know what's going to happen if you don't. So I would rather go towards what's comfortable, even if I know it's negative, because this, I know what to do with this pain. I don't know what to do with that pain. So it, you know, some people will word that of like the devil you know versus the devil you don't. And I would rather deal with the devil that I know because at the end of the day, I've been there. I've like, you know, been there, done that, got the t-shirt versus like this is such new territory. And that's more scary than not.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Yeah, that's like the saying the brain will typically choose a familiar chaos over an unfamiliar piece because you're like, I don't know what that piece feels like, but I know the chaos. I know how to work through this. I know what this feels like.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Even though it may not feel good, I know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

I love that quote. We gotta clip that one because that was such a good quote. Because it's so true. I'm just thinking of all the chaos I live in, and I'm like, wow, like relatable. Sounds about right, right? Literally, us signing in today. I understand the chaos and the comfort within it, okay?

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah. So, Brianna, if somebody feels that they they're resonating to this, they're feeling like their identity has become intertwined with their eating disorder, their mental health diagnoses, struggles. What would you recommend for people if they want to start reconnecting with parts of themselves that they feel have been lost or overshadowed by their diagnosis?

Identity Pie Chart To Rebuild Self

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yeah. I think my favorite way to start that, because that is such like a big question, right? Where it's like we just talked about how important the identity is. We talked about how impactful my diagnosis or mental health struggle is or eating disorder is. So when it comes to like reconnecting with those parts of themselves, I love to do this exercise where it's basically like my identity pie chart. So together we make like a pie chart graph, and the sections of the pie chart make up who we are as a human. So we can create a legend for the pie chart. And I usually ask the question what parts make up who you currently are? What parts have you lost? And what parts do you want to build? Like, what are the parts that you want to like nurture, create, or strengthen? And once we can create this legend, then we have like that idea because those three questions that I just asked, it's kind of hard to answer those.

SPEAKER_04 15:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:21

Right? So actually taking time to sit and sit with each one of those questions to be like, yeah, like who am I currently? What makes up who I am as a human? What parts have I actually lost? I think what we can see with eating disorders sometimes it's like if you are athletic and you play a sport, sometimes you lose that because now that's too dangerous for you. What else have you lost? Have you lost maybe connecting with friends and family? Have you lost the joy of the holidays? Right? Like actually looking at what have I lost that actually maybe was a part of who I am or what brought me fulfillment. And then the powerful question of what parts do you want to build? I think that question can create a lot of empowerment to help us begin to transition into like what other pieces can be a part of my identity that does bring me purpose or fulfillment outside of what I'm comfortable with. And so with this pie chart, I like referencing it because it like visually can give you the concept that things can fluctuate, right? Where some days maybe 80% of my identity is my job, it's my role at work. But then maybe I had 5% and it was being a good listener to a friend on a phone call. And maybe 10% I was creative when I was doing my coloring book in the evening, and 15% I was being a romantic partner, right? Where it's like it can actually show that can make up who you are in that day, but there's still a legend of all those pieces that you still are, even if they didn't get added into the chart today. And I think that concept's so important because what we tend to notice a lot of mental health struggles is like the pattern in the way we think is so rigid, right? It's so all or nothing. So I think the pie chart gives us that ability to create the awareness that things can adapt, we can be flexible, and I'm not losing any piece of who I am or my identity. And I kind of like to use the example too, like it could be I'm a successful business owner even if I took the weekend off. Like even if I wasn't a business owner on my pie chart today, it's still in there. Or I can still be an athlete or care about fitness, even if I didn't practice or workout today. It's still on the legend. It's just you didn't put in the pie chart today, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

I love that. It's so interesting. Because I also feel like too, it's kind of showing how like multiple things can exist at the same time. And I know something like I talk about with clients a lot too is like we can have like wins and challenges at the same time, right? So it's like a similar concept to that of just like, yeah, these things are still a part of you, even though we may not be like engaging with every single aspect of ourselves and our personality and our values and our interests every single day.

SPEAKER_02 18:28

Yeah. Yeah, it's the concept of coexisting, and I think that is actually a huge topic as well within the mental health field and with just emotions, like right, things can totally coexist. It may be confusing, but they can.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah. It's so funny because you don't like on the day to day, you don't really think about that, right? Like, I don't think when I'm like in mom mode that I'm not a therapist anymore. Like, I like so it's like you subconsciously understand that these things can happen, but when you're having that moment of like, oh my god, who am I? You do forget all of your interests and you do forget all these things. And it does feel like, oh, I'm losing myself. But in the day-to-day, you naturally flow through that, I feel like. But it's like when you really sit down to think about who am I? It's it's kind of like out of sight, out of mind, who am like where are all the parts and all the pieces sometimes?

SPEAKER_02 19:26

It yeah, exactly. And that's why like I just love the pie chart because it just can we can literally like visually think of that. Then it also checks in with ourselves because it's like, is there something in my identity legend that I haven't nurtured in a while? Have I stopped being creative? Yeah, and right, then that can and then opens up the whole can of worms to anything else, right? If you're feeling a low mood, if you're feeling disconnected, it's like, oh, maybe you haven't nurtured being a friend, yeah, having social connection, right? Like it's just it can put so many things into perspective.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

I have a question. Cause with the thought of like identity, and I'm gonna use like your personal experience, but you don't have to like give an example of personal if you don't want to. But I feel like part of the difficulty with identity through eating disorder recovery sometimes has to do with the age that you develop the eating disorder versus the age that you go through recovery. Right. So for you, you were 12 when you were diagnosed, but you were 21 when you want to go like full recovered, right? You as a 12-year-old is going to be very different of interests and identity than 21-year-old you, right? So I think part of I think the struggle too is like when you go through something like an eating disorder or any form of trauma, they say that emotionally you become stunted at the time of trauma, right? So if like emotionally in certain like capacities, that 12-year-old's still very there, but chronologically you're 21. How do you bring the two together and realize that like I'm not like I'm now 21, I'm not 12. So like maybe I love to ride my bikes and like play skip it, right? Go throwing it back to the 90s, like and maybe I love to play skip it, but at 21, that's on interest. And like, how do you like help people recognize that like you've not only grown up, but you've matured, but you're not losing that part of like I feel I don't know how to ask this question because I feel like it's so detailed, but like how do you help someone to also understand that part of it too?

SPEAKER_02 21:34

Yeah, no, that's a really good question. And I think a good concept to kind of look at that is it's kind of like if we were like looking at our a book, right? If we had a book of our life, we have different chapters, and that different chapters, our identity may look a bit different, and we may have there could have been certain purposes for that identity in that chapter. But it doesn't need to be the theme of the whole book. Like we can shift, and maybe it's not letting go. But maybe it's just shifting that.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:02

And it's like maybe we loved skipping and playing grounders on the park because we loved being outside and we liked being with our friends, right? So maybe as an adult, that looks like I go for walks with my friends, right? Like the knee can still change. I think for my own journey is yeah, when I was diagnosed, I was I was very young. And for me, a big part of my identity at that time is I was really athletic. I played sports at school with my friends. So all my friends were in this same friend group because of sports. Outside of school, I was in sports. And when I got sick, all that got taken away from me. So it was like, who am I? And I'm 12, 13 years old. Like that's a very profound question. But it's like the one thing I knew about who I was, just got taken away because it was a danger to me. So it was so hard. So then there was a component where I did latch on to the eating disorder because it was what I knew then. It was comfort, it was safety, I it was companionship at times. And so I think a big part of my recovery, like throughout those very transformative years of being a human, it was really understanding that shift that like my identity can change, the things can change, and that's okay. And I like to use the word shift instead of change because I feel like that's a lot softer, yeah, and feels more comforting for us. But it was also for me like building my identity outside of just being athletic. It's what else? It's okay, I can be creative, or okay, I'm a younger sister, or I like to be outside, I like to make my pets, and right. And it is just being open and curious to the things that make you feel like you, make you feel alive, and bring you purpose and fulfillment. And it's okay that that changes at different chapters of your story.

SPEAKER_00 23:58

Mm-hmm. Can I ask another question? Same uh uh trajectory or like same topic. But I know one of the things that Maggie and I like we work with parents, right? Because we work with like kids, like younger teenage, preteens. And I feel like parents also say the same thing of like, well, I just want my kid, like I remember when she was 12, she used to eat all these different foods, or I remember when she was 12, she loved to play outside. So, like for parents or support systems too, or is there even words of wisdom or anything like that of even saying, like, yes, your kid loved these foods or loved these things when they were this age? And we have to honor that they're not that age anymore. So honoring the person they're becoming and honoring the things that like maybe they loved, you know, pepperoni pizza, but maybe now they love like sausage of broccoli wrap on their pizza and they don't like pepperoni anymore, right? And like, how to allow, like on the parents' end, how do you allow your kid to grow and not force them to feel like they have to be stunted at the a different age because the parents are uncomfortable even with the kid's identity journey too? Like, is that something that you see or like have any guidance towards?

SPEAKER_02 25:13

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think one of the words you use there that I loved was grow, right? Again, softer than change. Change the human brain, we can be so resistant to change because it can feel scary and it can feel unsafe and we don't know what's to come. But when we think about what change can bring, it can be growing, it can be evolving, it can be adapting. And those are all things that are so important to be as a human. And so I think for parents, it's understanding that it is okay that your child they are evolving, they are growing, they are learning what they like and what they don't like, and that's actually a really good thing. It is so good to be able to identify, I like this, I don't like that. Because then again, that's gonna come down to your identity. So, as a parent, I think there's sometimes it's a bit of grief that happens with seeing your child change. And as a parent, it is important to recognize that's your grief to witness, oh, they once were this little child who loved that pepperoni pizza, and now they're requesting this more gourmet meal, like what's going on? And I think it's recognizing like, is that my stuff? Is that my stuff as a parent? Or it's like, am I having a hard time letting go? And is that also impacting my child for who they could be and who they want to be?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

That was so good. And I love the word that you use because I don't think the word that you use that I love so much is grief. And I feel like grief is one of those words that people, it's almost like trauma. Like, why are you using trauma if it's something little? Why are you using grief if it's something that seems so like small and minuscule? But I don't think people recognize that grief comes in all shapes and sizes just like some just like trauma, right? Like I it is a lot when you see your kid change. I'm not gonna cry. But like even seeing like my seven month old, like now he's babbling and saying mama all the time. And I was like, I feel like you were just two weeks old in my arms, and like now you're about to start crawling. Like it is uh I said I wasn't gonna cry. Like it is this, it's like it's a it is your stuff. It is a grief of change and growth because I agree with you with the word change, like sometimes we hate it, but it's also such a beautiful thing to watch. And even in eating disorder recovery, it's beautiful to watch them recover, but we have to allow them to recover in what they want to and what they feel is them. We can't dictate who they are going to become because then it's not their identity anymore. And then once again, it's just the cycle continuing of who am I becoming for somebody else rather than us allowing them to be who they are. Wow, that was so good, Brianna. That was good. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

But no, it's right. Like when, like sometimes parents they may have their own agenda that is getting put on the child, and like we just don't realize it because we don't know what's best for the child. But when it comes to recover, especially from an eating disorder, I think the most transformative way we do recover and excess and especially like have relapsed prevention, it is when that child figures out these things on their own, figures out what they like, what they don't like, without it being forced or that they have to like fake it just to make mom or dad happy.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

100%.

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Yeah, while we're talking about like parents and support people, I have a question too. So, because I I had this come up recently where somebody was describing like sort of that fine line of not wanting to reinforce the eating disorder and like reinforce the illness, but also wanting to make sure that like their child still felt validated and that they weren't accidentally invalidating them by trying to like separate the person from the eating disorder. And I just thought it was like such an interesting topic. So I don't even know exactly what the question is there, but I just wanted to mention that of like that fine line and and any guidance either of you have with like navigating something like that.

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah, it is a it makes sense. Like the the question there, the concern there, it makes sense, and I think at the end of the day, when we look at humans, it's the most impactful thing we can do to support someone, it is giving them a safe space where they can be heard and understood without judgment. And so, how do we do that is the question. And I always talk about curiosity, like it just being curious, asking questions, that's what creates that safe space. It's when you ask and when they tell, you listen and you say, Okay, tell me more about that. And you say, Oh, that makes sense. Yeah, that that must be hard. That that must be so confusing for you, right? Like the validation, the curiosity, learning more about their internal world, their internal struggle. Because as parents or as a partner or a friend, whoever it is that we see is struggling, we just want them to help. We just want to help them and to be like, come over here, recovery is gonna be better. Like, I know this, this path down here is gonna be way better for you. But what we actually need to do is meet them where they're at and walk with them.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

You know, something you said triggered a thought in my mind too of like curiosity versus judgment. And I feel like a quick and easy, maybe not easy, but like a quick way to do that is if you're going to say a judgment, ask it in a question. Right. Instead of being like, instead of thinking like that's so weird, you're doing that, you can just be like, oh, you're why are you doing that? Right. Because if you're almost changing it as like a statement to a question and you're making it or you're placing it into a format that is provided with love instead of like scrutiny, like that curiosity can come out from the statement that you want to say, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 31:30

Yeah. And like the thing about judgment is judgment creates shame for that other person. So if you're trying to create a safe space and you want to support your your child or your loved one, if you're judging, if you're making those assumptions, that's gonna create that can can create shame. And shame, I like to explain it, it's like a force field, but for anything, shame is a force field of connection, it's a force field of recovery, of treatment. If we hold shame with something, we got to break through that force field and decrease that shame. And so when it comes to yeah, trying to provide support and guidance to someone is to make sure that that shame, things you are saying, it's not going to enforce that or create that. And that's why like I love the concept of curiosity and asking those questions versus the statements.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Honestly, it's kind of sane, but it really popped into my head when Brianna was talking about it. And I was like, oh, if you just ask that, right? Because during sessions as providers, we might be thinking like, oh, you do that? Or you might be thinking of like, you know, or even if you see, like, I know like my husband does something, and I'm like, what the heck is happening here, right? And but like, or I'll just like kind of be mean and I'll make a statement, but then I'm like, oh, that's judgmental, just like reel it in. I am human, even though I'm a therapist. But like, you know, if you do turn it around, and I practice this with my husband, he's like my my guinea pig, like I will be like, Don't be judgmental, Jessica. And I'll say, honey, why are we doing that? Like, what's going through your head right now? And I just it did just click when Brianna was saying like curiosity. And like sometimes you do have to make the statement, the question, and it comes out a lot easier. But this is the first time I've said that out loud. So, like, same bag, same.

SPEAKER_01 33:21

It makes sense. I mean, as you were describing it, I was like, Yes, I totally, totally could see that working.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

But obviously, like how you ask it is also key because it's always about the tone. Oh, 100%. Because you could easily like curious curiosity could sound like, what in the bleep are you doing? And then it's like, okay, well, that wasn't curious. You're still judging me in your question, right? Like, so the way that you're asking it also very much allows the space for shame or for acceptance. But yeah, some food for thought in the moments. I can come up with really cool things, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 34:05

So, Brianna, I have another question for you. So let's say, for example, somebody feels like they don't know who they are outside of their diagnosis, right? Maybe they don't feel like they have past interests or hobbies or values to like tap into. I'm I'm specifically kind of thinking about people who have had really long-term eating disorder struggles where maybe, you know, it's been decades and they just don't feel like they have any sense of themselves outside of their diagnosis. Just kind of curious of what like what you would recommend there, what comes to mind there.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. I think the first part in that is before we even get to the identity piece, it's starting to create the first the understanding of how our brains are like wired for survival, meaning like we develop these patterns of thinking, these mechanisms of coping and surviving based off of our experiences. And that is different from who we are authentically as humans. But you're right, when you've lived with something for so long, it can easily become fused with your identity, and it starts to impact how you see yourself, how you make decisions, how you show up in relationships. So I think that key part is creating space from who you are as a person and the pattern or the symptom of the diagnosis. So really creating that awareness of this is my eating disorder voice versus this is actually me. And the more awareness we have to these patterns, we can then start to like detach from the thoughts and look at them differently, notice them differently. My favorite tip to do this actually is give it a name. Give your eating disorder voice a name. And when that, so like Barb, right? When those thoughts of Barb come through, we can say, Barb's really loud today, but I know Barb's not always right. Or thanks for chipping in, Barb, but today I'm gonna, I'm gonna take it from here. I'm gonna handle it. And it's just that way that we can start to detach from those thoughts to be like, this this isn't me. This is my eating disorder.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

Yeah, it reminds me of the like that that scene in the Life Without Ed book where the therapist has her sit across from an empty chair and like speak to her eating disorder. Do you guys know that part?

SPEAKER_03 36:47

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Like I think I'm remembering it correctly. But it just like, as you were saying that of just like the identification of it, like giving it a name, it reminded me of that too, of being like, okay, like Barb is in the chair in front of you. Like, what are you gonna say?

SPEAKER_04 37:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 37:01

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, like that. It's just it can just even be that like visual detachment, like just noticing. And then from there, like once we create that attachment, then of course you can start to look into how can people connect and with a version that is more suitable to their identity, how can they create fulfillment and purpose? But that first part definitely is like the detachment and the awareness of that. But I also think with that being said, it's always so good to educate people or our clients that when we're doing this work, sometimes it gets harder before it starts to work or before it gets easier because you're so used to that. That's your comfort, you're familiar with that. And so there can feel like that resistance. It can, these concepts can sound simple, like, oh, just give it a name and create like that. Can sound simple. Is it easy? No, it is hard. And I think sometimes just that validation and awareness that can be worked that to be like, okay, I know this is gonna be hard, but I know there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

SPEAKER_00 38:08

Yeah, I wish clients like I wish there was a way to like show clients like this is what it looks like at the end of the tunnel. Like, please keep going, because it does like not knowing what it looks like is what makes people go, okay, I'm gonna get so far. I've hit this bump in the road. Okay, I can get over it. We're gonna keep going. But there's always certain moments for clients where they're like, I just can't keep doing it anymore, right? And then they're like, okay, now we're gonna relapse. And it's like, no, no, like you're so close, like just keep going. And it's like, I wish there was a way to show clients like this is what we can do and like this is what it looks like, and let's keep going. And like clients always say when they, you know, Maggie and I have worked with so many clients together independently, where they hit that recovery process, like the the light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. And they're like, wow, this really is worth it, right? And it's so fulfilling to be like, oh my god, you did it, and like you get it. But I just wish for the clients, like in the moment, like we could give them that like 60 second reel of like, this is it, keep going, because there is so much more life at the end of that tunnel. And I just like I wish they could see it to know how worth it it is for them because it is so hard, especially with that identity. Like, look at who you are, you're not your eating disorder, and like there's proof. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:29

It would be so much easier. That'd be so amazing if we could do that, right? I think like that actually reminds me too of just like how important the concept of hope is with recovery. Yeah, and because hope is it's such a beautiful concept when we think about it, because hope is believing without having the information of certainty. Yeah, it's trusting that it's gonna happen and it's gonna be good and I'm gonna get through it. I don't know how, I don't know when or why, or yeah, don't know those pieces, but I can have hope that it's there. I can trust that it's worth it.

SPEAKER_03 40:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

It's good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

It is good stuff. I just don't think that people even like I don't think people think about hope enough. And I wish that, and I I agree with you, like I wish that they did and they recognize that like and hope doesn't mean a linear of happy or positive or things like that. Like hope is like the intricate of the the spirals and the good things that come and like the ebbs and the flows and stuff like that. It's just it's just that feeling of I'm hopeful, right? It's almost like you you can have like a breath again with believing.

SPEAKER_02 40:46

It's like surr it's surrendering.

SPEAKER_04 40:48

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 40:49

Or it's kind of letting go of control. It's like I I don't know exactly what that's gonna feel like, what that's gonna look like. I know there's uncertainty there, but I'm gonna surrender and have that hope, have that trust that it's worth it.

SPEAKER_01 41:03

Yeah. I feel like stories like yours are that beacon of hope. You know, that like that people need. Because I'm sure you guys get this all the time too. But I like clients will always ask, they're like, Do you feel like you have seen people recover? Do you have clients who've recovered, you know, and are like asking that, wanting to hear that hope too? So even like people sharing their recovery stories is such a a great experience of hope for other people.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

I agree. Yeah, definitely. Because it's comforting to see like a a real life experience that someone has gone through, the rigmarole, the ebbs and the flows to know that the you have an identity, you have a life, you have experiences, you have love, you have a person outside of everything. Cause sometimes it does feel like like we were saying, like it, like the difficulty of it, it makes the ending seem very like far off.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

And that's why I love that there's podcasts like this and certain social media or books that can really have those recovery stories and share people's stories to make individuals struggling with a new disorder that they're not alone. Because for me, like, I mean, I don't want to age myself, but like that was that was a while ago. And when I was in like my preteen and my teen years, that was not spoken about. You didn't speak about this this illness, and then that also created the shame. But I remember being at Indigo and like looking through the books, being like, is there a book about a girl with an Indus or like I was like looking for some form of like connection of like is what's going on? Is am I alone in this? Is there is there hope? And I like couldn't find anything, so it's so great that there are a lot more like resources and a lot more conversations about people's stories and their recovery journey.

Values Relationships Letting Go Final Notes

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Yeah. When it comes to values, interests, and relationships, how do those all play roles in rebuilding somebody's identity outside of a diagnosis label?

SPEAKER_02 43:15

It's very important because our value is our internal compass. Our interest is what makes us feel alive. And our relationships is where our identity gets reflected, challenged, and expanded. So those three things are so important to who we are as humans. And when it comes to recovery, it's not just about separating yourself from that label, that mental health label, but rather building an identity that is so much more purposeful than the label, that is so much more helpful, provides fulfillment than that label of the eating disorder. And so when you actually connect to your values, connect to your interest and have healthy relationships, it all that expands and then you can reduce your need for using that label and finding comfort in that label because you now find comfort and connection and other things.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

So what if somebody feels scared scared to to let go of of their diagnosis or that label?

SPEAKER_02 44:28

Definitely normalizing it like that makes sense. You've held on to that for a long time and that diagnosis, it's given you a sense of comfort, coping, safety, companionship, right? It's it was providing that person with something, but now it's causing distress. Now it's becoming problematic. But at one point in time it did give those things to that person. So again, which already spoke about it's the topic of grief again. Right? Like yeah if we can whenever we let go of something whenever we're about to make a change we do experience grief. Like I'm I'm moving in a couple of weeks and I'm grieving the house that I'm in. I want to move I'm excited for the move it's a good move but I'm like oh I miss this view this right like you grieve when there's a change and if we don't acknowledge that grief I think it does make us resistant to the change. Yeah. So if we can understand that grief is a part of the process and we can understand the grief, hold space for the grief, we can then learn to accept that experiencing change or just experiencing discomfort with the change is going to make sense. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it's always going to be uncomfortable just like when I move into my new house it's going to feel unfamiliar at first and then I'm going to feel right at home. Right? So it's like I think acknowledging that process of grief is so important. But then I also like to look at okay we can maybe see what this illness what this diagnosis has provided you. We said like a sense of knowing comfort control but it's looking at what has this illness taken away from you? What has this diagnosis stopped you from doing what will this diagnosis continue to take from you? And with that that can be very powerful when we view that where it's like oh yeah this actually is taking a lot from me versus serving me. And so then it's looking at okay well can we find more adaptive ways of coping more healthy and helpful ways of coping to replace the old patterns and behaviors of the diagnosis.

SPEAKER_01 46:52

Have you guys seen the movie Inside Out love it. Yeah okay reference it all the time I was gonna say what you were just saying reminds me of like so I've done this before with clients where like I'll say like okay if you think of like the first inside out movie right she has all of her islands which are basically like all of her values right like playing hockey friendship goofball there's like whatever there's five of them and I'll do that exercise sometimes with clients with being like okay what would your islands be and then like if you think about the bridge like going across from like the like the main area to your island right is like has your eating disorder like helped to build that bridge or had that bridge crumble and like figuring out oh thank you. That's so good. Thank you thank you and like basically showing right that like you know most oftentimes people are like oh wow like education's a big value of mine and like you know I am not performing as well you know when it comes to school when I'm not nourished as much or you know I'm engaging in my eating disorder or family or friends are a big value of mine and like how has this impacted these relationships? So when you were saying that it made me think of that and I I'm very visual so I just like love the visualization of like are we building a bridge or like is the bridge crumbling and like to help people kind of recognize that oh my God I love that I'm stealing that.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Right?

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Yeah yeah yeah yeah go ahead this is why she's my better half because that was just brilliant I loved that so much because like I reference that movie a lot I think those movies are so well done I like even like for adults to watch like it helps everyone but I love that concept I never thought of it like that. That's so cool.

SPEAKER_01 48:32

That was saying yeah thank you.

SPEAKER_02 48:35

So Brianna if people want to find you want to get connected with you can you tell us a little bit of like social media website that kind of info yeah yeah so you can find me on Instagram my handle is Brie Main Prize underscore therapy that's the best to get a hold of me because then there you can like find my website and my info is all going to link in my bio so I may as well just send them there.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Amazing perfect awesome well thank you so much this is we we wanted to do an episode on this topic we've had this one written down for a couple of months but we just hadn't like found the perfect guest yet until we found you. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Yeah this was so much fun I I'm glad I I think it went good.

SPEAKER_00 49:20

No I th this was awesome. You were I mean yeah no I thought this was amazing the topic was great and you were you're so lovely and you're so fun. I thought it you crushed it. We crushed it.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

Oh nice thank you I appreciate that no this was really fun yeah I'm glad we got to do this topic because it's like I said it is so important and it's just popping up a lot more frequently I think I agree I agree.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Yeah thank you so much and thank you to everybody listening definitely go find Brianna on social media and see everything that she has to offer thanks guys for tuning in and we will catch you on the next one.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Bye thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 50:06

We hope this episode helped you redefine reclaim and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

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