Nourish & Empower
Have you ever felt like you could use a little extra support when working on your relationship with food and your body? Join Jessica, a Licensed Professional Counselor, and Maggie, a Registered Dietitian, along with special guests, as we chat about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, body image, and so much more. Together, we have over 15 years of experience working in eating disorders and mental health treatment. Let’s redefine, reclaim, & restore the true meaning of health on The Nourish & Empower Podcast.
Nourish & Empower
Diet Culture vs. Anti Diet: How Inclusive Nutrition Actually Works
Ever feel trapped between diet rules and anti-diet slogans, like you have to pick a side to “eat right”? We invited ADHD dietitian Chelsea Pitrelli to break the stalemate. Chelsea has lived on both ends of the spectrum—teaching adult weight management classes and guiding eating disorder recovery—and she shows how the same core skills can serve radically different goals when we strip away shame and refocus on intention.
We unpack what anti-diet actually means, beyond hashtags and hot takes. Chelsea explains Health at Every Size as a behavior-first framework, how set point theory reframes the fight with the scale, and why gentle nutrition is an “add-in” approach that prioritizes protein, fiber, regular meals, and satisfaction. We talk about the good–bad pendulum that diets create, why sustainability beats short-term wins, and how therapy tools like CBT can calm the anxiety that often drives food rules. You’ll hear practical examples—from pizza crust vs cauliflower crust to the cottage cheese craze—that reveal why inclusivity means both can belong when the choice serves you rather than fear.
We also address the toxic edges of both camps. Diet culture can moralize food; anti-diet can shame preferences. The middle is not mushy—it’s where curiosity replaces judgment and where clients learn to move from fear foods to genuine enjoyment. For ADHD brains, we highlight accessibility and convenience as health tools, with snack ideas like freezer waffles with peanut butter and honey that actually stick. By the end, you’ll have a clearer philosophy of nutrition that fits real life: less performing health, more practicing it.
If this conversation helped you rethink your relationship with food, follow and subscribe, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review telling us one “rule” you’re ready to rewrite.
Show notes:
Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.
Resource links:
ANAD: https://anad.org/
NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/
NAMI: https://nami.org/home
Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/
NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/
How to find a provider:
https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us
https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand
Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)
Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)
If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
Hi, everybody. Welcome to this week's episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, everyone.
SPEAKER_03:Today we have with us Chelsea Grimbone. She's an ADHD dietitian working one-on-one with clients to improve areas of gut health and food freedom. She's worked in the dietary fields for over 10 years and has an eclectic background, including areas of adult weight management, inpatient and outpatient eating disorder recovery, and geriatric and long-term care management. Thanks for joining us today, Chelsea. Hey guys, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_05:I'm so excited you're here.
SPEAKER_01:It's like a little party. I'm excited. It is, it is. And for everybody that doesn't know that is listening, Chelsea is one of my old coworkers, but she wasn't allowed to get rid of me, so she stuck with me for life. So we are very excited to have her on and get inside of that brain of hers. So thanks for being here, my dear.
SPEAKER_04:Yes. And it's about time. I've been trying to get on here forever. We've just been very busy with your podcast. A lot of great episodes. So it's an honor to be on. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:The honor is ours. So yeah, I know we were very excited to have you because you really wanted to talk about the I'm gonna butcher it.
SPEAKER_02:Hold on. Say the word. It begins with a P. We were talking about Oh, the polarizing.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So I we were very excited to have you. I knew the first letter, I couldn't figure out the rest. So we were very excited to have you because you were you really wanted to bring up the topic of like the polarizing differences between the anti-diet culture and the diet culture. And I feel like a lot of people I feel like a lot of people really bring both into everything of which is better, which isn't, can either be toxic, you know, all the different things. So what can you explain like to our listeners what the anti-diet approach is and what really got you invested in that part of the nutrition world?
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely. So I think this has been something that's really been on my mind recently in terms of the diet culture world and the anti-diet culture world. As anyone who's on social media or Instagram, what have you, you'll notice there's hashtag anti-diet. If you follow that link, you'll be provided a bundle of people that are really going against the grain, the grain being diet culture as we know it. So to say, you know, when we talk about diet culture, it's really embedded into society. So it's hard to even notice it at this point because it's in everything, whether it be commercials, television shows, like I said, social media in our schools, it's really so ingrained that getting away from it, we had this happening come across, you know, of just the anti-diet culture. So there is an actual book on it by Christy Harrison, a dietitian, and it really pushes towards the intuitive eating mindset and getting away from the rules of diet culture. So where I first I would say came across that is probably in the eating disorder recovery space. Because prior to that, directly prior to that, I was actually working in adult weight management, which is, you know, kind of ironic, going from the one to the other because they do feel so opposite in themselves. But going into the anti-diet really pushes the agenda of getting away from a weight-focused approach for nutrition.
SPEAKER_01:Do you feel like going from one extreme to the other? And I feel like we've had a decent amount of dietitians actually that have even said the same thing of you know, going from diet culture and being a nutritionist and teaching all of those thoughts and processes and actions, and then going to this side and being like, wow, this even for a provider, it's such like a weight off of their shoulders and such a different experience. So, for you, what was that like going from weight management to then eating disorder recovery within the anti-diet?
SPEAKER_04:I think one of the most mind-boggling pieces of going from one to the other was that what I was doing as a dietitian wasn't that different between the two roles. So, with the eating disorder recovery space, right? I have someone in, we're identifying, you know, are you at a weight that is maintainable? Are you below weight? Are you above weight? And that is a piece of the management. It's not the focus overall, but making sure that someone is where their body should be and that they're not fighting their natural weight and getting their body there in a healthy way is something that we work on together. And through that, we work gentle nutrition, right? And I do a lot of nutrition education as to what are balanced meals, what are appropriate snacks, how much of X, Y, and Z should you be trying to incorporate into a day. And going over to what I was doing prior, you know, of adult weight management, is I was doing nutrition classes. We were talking about gentle nutrition, you know, what meals to have and what in parts of the day, what was we did more focus on portion control, but still in both spaces, we're showing like what an appropriate portion is. You know, I think the mindset is just shifted as to are you having too much or too little? I think that's where the focus is on the client. But for me, who's providing the information, it's just a standard. So there's no, even in adult weight management, there's no morality placed on food. It's more just this is nutrition, you know. So going one way or the other, there was no you're bad, you're good for X, Y, and Z. And that really did carry over. The biggest difference, I think, between the two though, was what got people in the door. Right. So adult weight management number one goal was weight loss, period. It didn't matter where their start point was or end point, that was what initially got them in there, right? It wasn't to learn about fiber, okay? You know, that wasn't the goal.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And then in eating disorder recovery, people want their life back. That's why they're in recovery, wherever whatever stage that they're at, a part of them wants their life back, and that's why they're committed to recovery. And my approach there is to show them what a recovered nutrition space looks like. So I think that was the most interesting part going from one role to the other.
SPEAKER_03:Your adult weight management experience sounds like more neutral than I guess I was expecting, like the way that you describe food, because I haven't worked in weight management at all, but like obviously my internship, you know, that was a piece of it. And my experience was very different. That like it was very like good and bad food, and have this, don't have that, and you know, was more of like that like traditional, like restrictive approach. So it's interesting that your experience sounds really different than that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think one of the benefits that we had was that I was working directly under two other dietitians, and I ran the traditional program where we actually had a class, and you know, there were some women who came to the class and it was like their social hour, and I loved them, and they brought so much pizzazz, but there were various topics each week that we'd review that nutrition, dietary topics, and everyone would have their questions we come forward. So it was really an educational piece that wasn't focused on weight. There was a secondary piece of like one-on-one sessions where we would do food journals, we'd review variety and discuss, you know, instead of this, you could do this. And I know that there was this one presentation we do in the community also that was what was it, sneaky swaps for savory success. So, which was just like very easy things that you could trade in and out that would likely, you know, just reduce the overall calories in certain areas of your meals, which you know, we also in those sessions would talk about how zero fat cheese is not the appropriate thing to swap in because that's not cheese anymore. You know, cheese is a fat and that's okay. So it still left opportunity to discuss with people what was an appropriate thing to switch in and out and to try, and what are areas that that wouldn't be appropriate to get the same results. So again, it got people in the door looking for those sneaky swaps, but it was still a point to educate.
SPEAKER_01:Was it hard? Because especially working with you, right? I you follow and believe, right, the health at every size and the intuitive eating uh mindset and framework, right? So was it hard going from sneaky swaps and uh how I just interpret that don't eat this, eat that, put this in here, don't put that in there, right? So was it difficult going from that mindset to then shifting it? Because I think that, because I agree with Maggie, it did sound very neutral, but then when you brought that layer in to me, I was like, oh, there's a weight management that really focused on like weight loss and things of that nature. So was that a piece that was different for you too?
SPEAKER_04:I think when I came into the eating disorder recovery space and leaning into the opportunity to talk about health at every size, it kind of opened that door that was questioned in the other space. Because there were times I had a few clients, as a lot of our clientele in adult weight management were women of menopausal age, you know, that have had full lives. And there are some, and this was a decade ago, and I still think about some of these clients. And one of them, she told me her goal was to get into a pair of jeans. And I asked her, What when did you buy these jeans? And she told me they were from her 20s, which easily 40 years prior, and talking, and that kind of drifted into the space of like realistic expectations and thinking beyond weight as a goal, you know, because you know, we also did blood work and things like that, which was wonderful. So we could look a little bit beyond just weight, and we could say, you know, all of these markers mean that you are nourished and you are healthy. So what are you gaining by getting into those genes?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know, so there was opportunity for perspective in that space.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Whereas in eating disorder recovery, I feel like that is the space. So it's not just finding like little pockets of opening up the minds and discussing that there's more to life than weight, but that that's that's it. That's why people are there, that's what we're exploring. And with intuitive eating, you really get to hone in on what you have to add into your diet, what you're missing, versus focusing so heavily on what you have to take out. So that can be something that you talk about in adult weight management, and it's absolutely how I've leaned when going into a balanced diet. Because I say the same thing in adult weight management. I would say, you know, kale can be bad. Too much, too much of anything can be bad. And that goes for certain things like kale, and you really have to lean into how is this making you physically feel? Right? Because that's a very fibrous item that can have a lot of GI distress at certain levels. So when someone comes in and tells me, you know, I'm not hungry, I eat kale all day long, I'm absolutely fine. I said, Well, what else is going on? You know, like have you gone to the bathroom today? Like, how did that experience go for you? Like, do you have a lot of bloating? Do you have discomfort and really having people look at the other side of nutrition as opposed to just eating quote unquote good foods?
SPEAKER_03:I'm curious what brought you to nutrition in general? Since you have a lot of different experiences, like once you started working, can you take us back to like what brought you to the field in general?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so number one, I do self-identify as a foodie, big time food person. My dad is an immigrant from Italy, so our house food is huge, love food. In high school, when you know it starts getting that nerve-wracking, what am I gonna do with the rest of my life stage? I knew I wanted to do something in healthcare that was very important to me. I always just felt very attuned or attracted to the field, you know, helping people. And when it started breaking down to what my options were, because I wasn't health occupation students of America, which was a great opportunity to explore different positions in the health field, I discovered what a dietitian was. I was like, oh, that's a whole job. I could talk about food all day long. That's real. So for me, the stars aligned. And I kind of jumped head first, and I, you know, found a dietitian in the area that let me shadow her so I could get a better grasp on what a dietitian did. And I just really loved it. And I was very fortunate I found that in high school and I could go towards that in college. But a lot of my friends were nothing wrong with that, but they were jumping from major to major trying to find what their purpose was or what they were going to do. And I felt like I really did that and just followed that through college.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:I feel like a lot of these questions I'm getting very roundabout. I'm just getting very excited in this conversation. So I apologize.
SPEAKER_00:No, that's okay. No, you're doing great. Thanks, guys.
SPEAKER_02:So with I'm just trying to figure out which question I want to go to.
SPEAKER_03:Um, I feel like, okay, so we have you in college, right? We have your first couple of jobs. Yeah. Bring us a little bit more to like how you learned more about Haze, how you learned more about like a non-diet approach to nutrition. Was that in like the eating disorder program you worked at? Was that a little bit on your own? Why don't we jump into that? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Which kind of brings to get into that, we should talk about how I got into the eating disorder recovery space. Because that was not something I was seeking. I wasn't looking to get into that space. I did not personally have a lot of familiarity with eating disorders or eating disorder recovery. When I was in my position with adult weight management, I was applying two internships because at that time I was a diet tech. So I had a nice little break between college and my internship before I became a dietitian to kind of explore around. And when I got my internship, it was through California State Long Beach. It was a distance program. And I was left to my own devices to find preceptors, which is horrifying. And anyone who does a distance program, Godspeed. If you need a preceptor, please reach out. I do take distance interns all the time in the long-term care facility. So I have two right now. And I just I feel so bad. But in that experience, I actually completed my internship in multiple states, the first being California. And while I was out there, I was doing part-time internship. I started with a few rotations that agreed to take me. And I got a part-time job working for Center for Discovery, which eating disorder recovery. And while I was there, I, you know, was well liked. And I took it upon myself to ask the dietitian if I could actually do some rotations there as well. And so I really got a great experience of being a diet tech, dietetic intern. And then when I moved back East Coast, I transitioned to working for them and becoming a dietitian myself in their space as my first dietitian job. So through that experience was where I really dove in and found out about eating disorders, love the psychology behind it and you know, cognitive behavior therapy, and that whole side of it was something that was so interesting to learn because how we approach food is so mental and uh psychological, you know, and so being able to see that piece of it was so important. And I think you know, the health at every size jumps into that too, right? So it talks about how like your health isn't dictated by your weight, right? That's the big overarching theme of the book and the movement. And when you break that down, it really gets into you know, what is the truth behind your weight? What does your weight mean? Is your weight the way it is because that's what you should be and you've been fighting it? Is your body healthiest at X weights? And you've been like resisting that, and that gets into set point theory and everything, right? But a lot of people just have that difficulty of identifying that someone in a larger body can be healthy. And learning that whole process, I like to bring it back to something I actually learned in college and tying that together, which was TOFI, which is thin outside fat inside, which is a really interesting concept of a person in a small frame's body. When you do their body scans, you can actually identify that they have high fat content directly around their organs. And so that fat is considered more detrimental and can have more side effects or increased risk of various diseases than increased adipose tissue or that excess fat that we would see in other areas of the body more traditionally. So that was always a nice concept or visual that I would bring to clients to really show that just because you're physically seeing something doesn't mean that it's evident. evidence of someone's health. Right. So getting more into that.
SPEAKER_01:That's so interesting. What class did you learn? Like where did that come up with where did that come up in in school?
SPEAKER_04:Oh I have no idea which class that was, but I remember that I ran home and told my roommate about it. You know, just because I I just I was so interested by that. And that was such a new concept, you know, because I think when you're young it really it's just black and white of body size and health, right? Breaking those layers down and what all of it actually means is a whole different concept.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So when you're then taking that health at every size and the intuitive eating approach into what you do now or even the one-on-one you you do with clients.
SPEAKER_04:If someone's coming in with that diet approach, you know, how do you incorporate all of the newfound knowledge theories and values that you hold so it's common it's very common that someone would come to me with a diet approach. For me, my biggest thing is I'm not going to dispute what you feel. You know, if you did the keto diet and you've never felt better in your life like I'm not here to to take that away from you and say that that's not something that happened that you didn't experience.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:My questions typically align with what were your motivations behind starting that diet. You know, because some people be very direct and they'll say I was interested in weight loss you know other people will say things like I wanted to you know get my life back or I wanted to be more healthy. And really I like to dive in and see like what does healthy mean for you? Right. So with that you can kind of turn the page a little bit and talk about how diets are not sustainable. They often bring on more stress than anything else. And they really are a pendulum of good or and bad right so if you take these things away and you're able to do it for this X amount of time, you're good. But then it just takes one mess up to go the other way and then you're bad. So I like to discuss that and really talk about like how that makes an individual feel and if they identify that they're capable of staying on this end forever of that good side of that diet if or do they really find that that's a sustainable source of happiness you know and what are they losing by doing that as opposed to shifting to the other side and talking about just intuitive eating and gentle nutrition and really analyzing what their life could be like with a a balanced diet where it's not focused on what they're taking out.
SPEAKER_01:You know so that's more the direction I go again not focusing on disputing or arguing but just trying to get more of a a deeper understanding of why someone is approaching a diet I feel like and I always say this to Maggie too that I feel like what dietitians do does incorporate a lot of therapy and I feel like people don't ever recognize that right like you even talking about intention you talking about how like feelings the reason and everything behind that I feel it's always so important for people to recognize the amount of mental and emotional space the nutrition area takes up in a person and we were talking about it today in a podcast in an interview we were doing and we were doing a whole bunch of beautiful mythbusters and one of them was everything about the diet culture right and how it's there's it causes so much more harm than good whether it's your cortisol levels whether it's you know creating a higher set point whether it's causing you to you know constantly gain more weight and you know or cause cardiac disease right and I just think it's so interesting how how much you guys do not just nutritionally but medically and even like therapeutically like you guys just hit so many different facets of a human in your degree and I think it's incredible. That's why we're fired all the time you're describing that I'm like oh my gosh that's a lot like you're right wow I'm amazing right but like even when when I'm talking to clients about you know the medical necessity and things like that I'm like I don't know we gotta talk to Maggie she'll figure it out like she has all the answers I'm just saying what I think I know. But it's true like you have all of the nutritional part you have so much science and then on top of it like you bring in soup like that's why they call it nutrition counseling. So like all of the different layers that you guys do my hat off to you guys for like serious.
SPEAKER_04:Now that said my favorite sessions were always the ones that we were able to do together when we previously worked together because you know there's only so much depth I can go in on that side. You know so I know like the direct relationship of you know how you're approaching food and if it's causing stress and what's like you said the cortisol levels and everything and that direct relationship. But then when you get into all of the therapy pieces and really like like I said earlier like the CBT and really put it in those structures to move past that you know because in my experience like for what I can provide someone and I can put everything out I can say this is what a balanced diet is but if someone's going to approach it and those red flags are going to go and they're going to be so stressed they really need all of those pieces to help them come down. So that's why I think like really that interdisciplinary approach of having a full team really makes the difference.
SPEAKER_03:I always like to you as well thank you ma'am I always call Maggie and I'm like hey can we do another joint session thanks yeah I love those too because because also Jess like and I know I've said this to you before but I think it's also good to say publicly like when you were saying that like oh we do like the you know the therapeutic piece too and you said something like oh like that's in your degree like I didn't feel like that wasn't my degree. I felt like that was more learning on the job from people like you and still learning on the job from people like you like every time we do one of those sessions because I didn't really feel like that was part of my degree at least and people ask that all the time they're like oh do you have a minor in psychology or you know anything like that and it's like no I took like one class right but there's nothing more than that. So yeah it's you know that's a like a big testament to people like you too who like help and teach us because that doesn't come as naturally you know to us in like our academic background.
SPEAKER_00:Look at us just helping each other out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah this is very uplifting this is a nice conversation I'm enjoying this I'm feeling good we're a good team we have to you know pat ourselves on the back that's what I'm saying because like I say to clients if you're not gonna do for yourself who will here we are oh my gosh my personality never changes let me tell you I want to make sure we ask this one question. Go for it because I don't know which one you're I know there's one thing we really wanted to talk about today too and the question being like is there a toxic part to anti-diet culture as we know there's a toxic part to diet culture.
SPEAKER_04:I love this question because when we opened this up right we talked about the polarizing diet versus anti-diet culture and this really brings it together and the best way I can explain it is not that we like to get political but if you think about like conservatives and liberals right and that if you go all the way to the left all the way to the right it leaves this huge space between where people don't know who they can and can't talk to right so if I'm all the way on the side of saying I'm an anti-diet dietitian full blown that's it no discussion people are not going to come to me I'm not going to be a safe space and I'm no longer at a point where I can say like earlier you know if you come to me and you say you know I love this diet it's changed my life if I turn around and say you're wrong right there's no longer an opportunity for a conversation. So I think that there really has to be an in between so that people can discuss it and have open discussions about things. So it's the same thing with where a dietitian really pushes name the diet you know I'm not going to look at them and say that they're not educated because there are various research studies that promote certain types of diets, right? Whether it be for longevity or short run or what have you there's different advantages disadvantages to an array of nutrition approaches. I think there should just be the space where we can discuss it. So we have our opinions and as dieticians we have the background to really have educated opinions and it's our job to present that to our clients and the people reaching out. So it's not to shut the door on all the other things but it's to discuss what is appropriate for the individual that you're treating.
SPEAKER_03:As you're talking like I'm thinking of I have a client who we talk about this a lot and kind of the example that her and I came up with is like our way to describe it as like okay diet culture will say like don't eat pizza crust anti-diet culture will say don't eat cauliflower pizza crust so it's basically just like them pointing the finger this way them pointing the finger that way and like what her and I talk about is that like when we're saying like all foods can fit like that means all that means both right yes and if you like regular pizza crust cool if you like cauliflower pizza crust cool if you like both great you know that like we don't want to shame like certain foods either because it's just a way of like giving us more variety right like you know maybe maybe you get to try cauliflower pizza crust and it's like oh this is a new food I haven't tried this in this way before and like cool that's a great way to add more variety in but that like we don't want to like say okay like we include all foods in but then we're shaming certain foods right like that contradicts each other. And so it's being able to see a space in a world where like truly every food is there and every food does have a purpose and that like with our eating disorder clients like we do need to check intentions there too right because there is that fine line where it's like no I'm only choosing this because I'm afraid of this other thing. And so we want to work on food rules and we want to challenge fear foods right but we also don't want to like shame any foods in the process of doing that. We just want to be able to explore like what's the intention here and like let's make sure like this is serving you and it's not serving your eating disorder.
SPEAKER_04:Absolutely absolutely and you know that makes me think of like cottage cheese recently having its moments its glow up at everyone's meals. Yes you know and when people come to me about it I would just ask them I said do you like cottage cheese? And if they said no I said don't include it. But that was my advice but for people that were really challenged in ways to get more protein in their diet then we were able to talk about it. You know it's not a struggle for everyone. So was it appropriate for everyone? No.
SPEAKER_01:And it wasn't a if you use this you're bad you use this you're good no but it was potentially a tool to help someone have like you said more variety in their diet and I think too I think some of the words you guys because we know me a big language and word person over here and you know the word shame and I think you guys just said it so beautifully and I really want to highlight it that shame goes on either direction. And so it's very hypocritical and I hate hypocrites when you're pointing the finger in one direction but you're doing the exact same thing. Just because it's in a different way doesn't mean it's not bad or it's not giving the same message. So when you're thinking about intuitive eating when you're thinking about health at every size when you're thinking about this all this inclusivity the word inclusive is the key thing it's the whole point of it. And so it is having all these different foods and recognizing that sure if you want to have like you said cauliflower or pizza or cottage cheese or yogurt or heavy cream whatever the hell it is it's okay to have any of those things. Shaming either one of them is just going to continue to bring in those thoughts behaviors actions and feelings that we are trying to heal from. So there isn't a point to being on either end of it. And I'm so glad that we brought this question in because I feel like it's also very similar to that toxic positivity that we're seeing too or I think it was you know it was more prevalent a little while ago where everyone was like it's okay don't be sad you know just find the silver lining and be happy and it's like as a therapist I'm not like I want to pull my hair at it I'm like no but you can be sad like just stop like it is okay and it's like you have to allow yourself to have emotions you have to allow yourself to have all different foods. You can't shame and numb one without shaming and numbing all it's science guys. I mean come on science like I say to Maggie my favorite quote that she always says is nutrition is a science it's not an opinion same with therapy. Well maybe sort of kind of but like it is what it is okay as Bernay Brown says and I am obsessed with her I know you are I love her so much but if you numb one you numb all you cannot ignore the negative and expect to feel all the positive it's not going to happen that way thank you for coming to my TED talk it's your second one today by the way when you really give me the floor I take it the floor is yours. Oh gosh settle down Jessica settle down there's so many good things I can't but I do I do I'm glad that we did talk about that because I think it really is just I think it was important to really talk about it. But even thinking about you know the the toxicity you know do are there ever conversations you have with clients where you have to debunk you know any thoughts on either direction if people think haze is too bad or intuitive eating is bad do you have to debunk things there or vice versa with you know the the inclusivity piece and how do you how do you approach that?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah I mean I think being someone who's worked in the eating disorder space I think we lean heavily in debunking diet culture. Yeah right I think one of the things that people don't understand is that being in anti-diet culture on that end of the spectrum it doesn't mean that there's not nutrition right so going that direction you're not saying that you're going to have pizza every day right because I think that people that are on the other end of diet culture like that's an easy go to quote unquote bad food right so that's just my example for the moment so instead of you know on the left side we're gonna say you're never eating pizza ever again on the right side we're not saying that you're eating pizza every day. So we're trying to meet in the middle and I think that's something that people don't understand about the anti-diet side of things. And I think that people that aren't educated in that space also can have that experience, you know, where maybe they were restrictive for a long time and they finally opened the door and it can be really scary because all of those things that were previously just on the no list are now options. And you have to give yourself that permission to have them as part of your life before you're going to trust yourself. Because if it's still that hesitant moment of I don't know how much of this I can have I don't know if I should trust myself around it without the full permission you're never gonna really understand what it's like to have it as part of your diet. You know what I mean? So getting to that space where it's not a fear food because it's something that you enjoy, but just genuinely being able to enjoy it and enjoy it to your fullness level and incorporating it along with other foods in your diet. So I think that's part of that debunking experience on both ends of it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I think you bring you just said something that I've never that I've like kind of thought of but I feel like you just said it so eloquently of not only just making food not a fear food anymore, but having it be something that you enjoy to the fullest right because in our line of work we do so much exposure right and so we're saying okay where's your suds but I can't think of what suds stands for. So like the suds right the number of distress right isn't it like level of distress yes I was trying to figure out the U and the D were but yes it's so like it's your level of stress or maybe I don't know for some reason I thought it was an acronym but the level of all over the place the level of stress that you feel when having a food right and in the beginning some foods might be five to ten and we want to get them down to where it's a zero to two right to where or really a zero but we're we're getting you down so you're comfortable with the food. But I think what people forget is that the next step is not only not having fear but it's enjoying it. And I feel like we talked about this a little more to a little bit too Maggie earlier today of you know having that freedom and being able to say I love this. I enjoy this I think sometimes it's scary for clients because it is almost like the toxic part of the anti diet well if I eat it now I'm never gonna stop eating it so I can enjoy it. I can't bring myself to that point because then I'm gonna be on that side of the spectrum and what's that gonna do so I think like all of it really ties in together of recognizing that fulfillment and enjoyment It's supposed to be there with food, and it's not going to sway you all the way around on this spectrum. It really is going to keep you there in that middle. What the middle looks like in regards to what your week to week looks like of what your nutrition is, that's where it's going to sway, and that's going to be different. But it doesn't have to be this so daunting and taxing on your mental, emotional, and medical health.
SPEAKER_05:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:The first half of that you had me just trying to figure out what the suds was, but I was with you. I was distracted, but I was here.
SPEAKER_00:I know, sorry.
SPEAKER_01:I was like, I think it's is or something. But remember when we would do ERP snacks and they would have to fill out the numbers? That's what I was thinking of.
SPEAKER_04:No, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:It's a good time. Suds.
SPEAKER_04:I feel like it's just such a you know, the diet versus anti-diet culture, it's such a broad topic that we can honestly go so many directions in it. And I know we talked about like what's toxic about either way and where really where we lean. I think the biggest thing is just people being comfortable in reaching out. And even if your number one goal is weight focused, it doesn't mean that you can't start the journey. You know, it just might take some time to get around to the other pieces of haze and intuitive eating. And it's one of those things like, okay, let's talk. Let's put your weight goal on the back burner. And let's talk about all the things that I would talk to you about anyway. Because, like I said in the beginning of this, when I worked in adult weight management, we still reviewed SMART goals. We still talked about adding in X amount X foods per week to try to balance out the nutrition. And then, same thing with getting into eating disorder recovery, we evaluated how someone was approaching food and we made goals of what we were going to incorporate each day, each week, you know, and how that changed their relationship over time. And so I think that's really the middle ground that we're talking about of diet versus anti-diet culture. It's like either end that you're on, if we take the weight piece out of it, likely the nutrition approach is going to be pretty similar.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I think it's for people too, like figuring out what their own philosophy on nutrition is, you know, because I'll ask clients that sometimes, right? Like, I always say, like, I'm not, you know, I don't want to micromanage your nutrition, right? I want to present to you all of these, you know, different kinds of approaches, and I want to help you reframe things and I want to help you, you know, talk through it and explore it and play detective, but like at the end of the day, like I have my individual, you know, thoughts and philosophies on nutrition, and so do other people. And I think it's cool for clients to get like the chance and the opportunity to like learn that for themselves too, and figure out like, you know, what that means to them.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:I think when you present that space where they can openly discuss those philosophies, you know, of like their how they feel about various foods and their personal approaches to nutrition, that's where they're gonna learn about it. Because they probably haven't been able to openly discuss that with a provider prior to this point. And that's really the safe space that we need to provide.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:So, Chelsea, if people want to get connected with you, learn more, where can they find you? Don't come to my apartment, but you can find me on physically find her.
SPEAKER_00:Too late, I'm coming for you, honey.
SPEAKER_04:Jess does know where I live, and that's scary. But no, Instagram, absolutely adherscore dietitian. That's where you can find me. If you want to work with me, I even have an application in my profile. But absolutely DM me, let's start a conversation, and we can talk about what you're looking for, or even if you just have a weird question, out of the girl. Weird stuff is my game. So that's where you should definitely shoot the questions.
SPEAKER_01:It was even in her wedding vows, it's true. Oh, it was. Yeah, it was.
SPEAKER_04:When I was crying, thanks for that.
SPEAKER_01:But yes, we and we will definitely put that in the show notes as to what her Instagram handle is. And I think we've even, you know, we post her stuff on our story sometimes. So we will catch us whether it's on here or on our own Instagram page, you will catch us promoting her for sure. And of course, our favorites and the last question that we ask all of our guests, what would you say is some of your favorite snack? And to put us a little on things. I know you said your in your Instagram handle. Instagram handle is ADHD dietitian. What are some of the, you know, thinking about those with ADHD and maybe struggling with snacks and things of the nature? What's your favorite snack and what's one that you even promote to your clients?
SPEAKER_04:Ooh. By the way, this question threw me for a loop. I had a preview to this earlier, and my mind was going crazy thinking of all the different snacks. So saying favorite is tough, but I settled on my recent go-to when I'm home, at least, which is a frozen waffle with peanut butter and honey.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Frozen waffles recently re-entered my life, and we're having just a journey together. They're wildly convenient because anyone with ADHD knows that things that go bad are difficult to have around. So I lean heavily into frozen options. So that's probably one of my big ones that I recommend for someone looking for something filling as a snack that's not going to have you hungry in another 20 minutes. That's a great option.
SPEAKER_00:Love it. That sounds good. That does sound really good. Mm-hmm. It's a good thing. Yeah, you do. Yeah. I love my convenience foods, baby.
SPEAKER_04:Well, with that, I think I'll have to bid you ladies adieu.
SPEAKER_00:You will. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Well, thank you.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you so much. Yes, this was great. I just uh you have so much editing to do. We did so much, which was great. It was great conversation, but I can only imagine what work begins now on your end.
SPEAKER_01:It's gonna be so much fun. I can't wait. I'm gonna I'm gonna laugh while we're laughing in my editing, and I'm gonna look like a crazy like it's gonna be it's gonna be a time. It's gonna be a time.
SPEAKER_04:Well, hopefully we can do this again. If you guys ever need a spot to fill, I'm definitely your girl. I'd love to be on again. You guys are a blast.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, thank you. We'd love to have you. Yes, we definitely would. And for everybody listening, thank you for tuning in on this episode. You know where to find Chelsea if you are interested or just want to view her amazing posts. And we will catch you guys on the next one. Bye. Bye. Bye.