Nourish & Empower
Have you ever felt like you could use a little extra support when working on your relationship with food and your body? Join Jessica, a Licensed Professional Counselor, and Maggie, a Registered Dietitian, along with special guests, as we chat about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, body image, and so much more. Together, we have over 15 years of experience working in eating disorders and mental health treatment. Let’s redefine, reclaim, & restore the true meaning of health on The Nourish & Empower Podcast.
Nourish & Empower
What If Holiday Traditions Served Your Values, Not Your Fears
Ever wish holiday traditions felt lighter and more like you? We invited our colleague Tamar, an FBT therapist, to help us unpack the meaning of Hanukkah’s light and the realities of eight days filled with latkes, donuts, gatherings, and comments—and then we turn to Christmas, where office cookie swaps, seven fishes, and a packed social calendar can test even the most grounded routines. Together we get honest about food fears, sensory overload, and that pressure to “perform” at the table, then trade it for values, boundaries, and practical support.
We explore what makes Hanukkah unique: customs that are beloved but not required, space to light candles and sing without forcing eight nights of fried food, and the power of modeling calm participation for kids. Tamar shares planning strategies for pacing the week, communicating needs, and choosing where to show up fully. We normalize the physical reality of richer food and busier schedules and offer scripts to sidestep diet talk. For students and adults, we outline how to use multiple supports, keep a regular fueling rhythm, and reduce dread with simple, repeatable plans.
Shifting to Christmas, we talk about managing back-to-back events, navigating seafood-heavy menus, and supporting ARFID or sensory sensitivities without turning the table into a high-stakes exposure. We explain when exposures help and when they should wait, how to build a plate that fits you, and how to tap into values—connection, joy, tradition—without sacrificing recovery. We close with two actionable takeaways: accept that holiday routines will be different and choose one act of self-care as a gift to yourself.
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Show notes:
Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.
Resource links:
ANAD: https://anad.org/
NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/
NAMI: https://nami.org/home
Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/
NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/
How to find a provider:
https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us
https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand
Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)
Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)
If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.
SPEAKER_00:Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. Hi guys, it's Jess and Maggie here on our sixth episode of Nourish and Empower Podcast, season two. And to begin, as always, our trigger warning. We will be discussing eating disorders, mental health, and holidays. Listener discretion is advised. This show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes. And today we have one of our colleagues here with us for our today's episode. And we're so thrilled that Tamar said yes. And so a little introduction, drum rule. And like I said, Tamar's with us. And Tamar works with those with eating disorders as we all do. She works with us at Hilltop. And uh Tamar personally specializes in FBT. She holds a master's of social work degree from Rutgers, New Brunswick, and an undergrad degree from UCLA. Oh girl. She brings two years of interning experience from the Mount Sinine Eating Disorder and Weight Disorders program in New York City. Tamar likes to support clients with a deep understanding of the intricate connections between mind, body, and spirit. She integrates mindfulness and cognitive behavioral therapy to guide clients toward enduring transformation. She supports clients by creating a safe space where they can explore their inner world, challenge negative thought patterns, and develop effective coping strategies. Chaos, and here we are. Thanks, Tamar, for coming on. Thank you guys for having me.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we're really excited. And today's episode is going to kind of be two parts. So we're going to talk a bit about Hanukkah with Tamar, and then we're also going to talk a bit about Christmas as well. So this will be kind of our December holiday episode, all wrapped into one. Sounds good. Yeah, wonderful. So, you know, just to get us started, can you first tell us a bit just about the holiday of Hanukkah in general and kind of the beauty and the joy of it?
SPEAKER_03:Sure. I think a lot of the beauty and the joy of Hanukkah is mirrored in the other holidays that are celebrated in December. A lot of togetherness, a lot of family. And it really another kind of euphemism for Hanukkah is the festival of lights. So, and that's a synonym, hyperbole. What's the word? The word for it's a symbol. Okay. It's a symbol, I think, for a lot of what we're celebrating on Hanukkah, which is miracles and and light, which takes on many different meanings.
SPEAKER_00:I love this so much. That's awesome. I like when things have different meanings. So would you say that there's different meanings because light and miracles like mean something to people differently, or it's because like what you guys are taught through Judaism of like what the light and the miracles are?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So that's a good question. So I would say people who are a little bit more observant or religious are celebrating some of the historical miracles that were performed for the Jewish people by God. And one of those is was the was that one little pot of oil lasted eight days in the Holy Temple after they were destroyed, after the temple was destroyed by Romans. So there was this miracle, and actually light lasted longer than it was supposed to. But of course, light lends itself to representing so many other beautiful values and principles and ideas. So besides for besides for that, and then also I think just like the wider celebrating of Hanukkah is this appreciation for where we all kind of get our light, where we get our strength, what miracles can we witness in our own lives, what miracles are we thankful for? With what light do we have within us? What light do we appreciate from others? I mean, light can take so many meanings. So it sort of depends on how there literally is a literal reason we're celebrating light for this miracle. And then there's like these other kind of layered reasons why we that we celebrate light that take on many meanings and have a lot of symbolism and kind of you can spin it in a lot of different ways, which are beautiful, meaningful, and you know, and and they kind of span the religious spectrum.
SPEAKER_01:That is really beautiful. Yeah, especially if you hear like the kind of individualism that can come into it as well. Can you tell us a bit more about some of the traditions that occur during Hanukkah?
SPEAKER_03:Sure. So a lot of the traditions, well, I I imagine it will kind of lend itself to one of your next questions, which is food. So a lot of holidays in the Jewish religion center around food, or food is part of the tradition. So Hanukkah is a dairy heavy, oil-heavy holiday. And there's a few reasons for that. One is because we're celebrating this miracle of oil that lasted longer. There's also a couple reasons why dairy lends itself also to celebrating Hanukkah without going into too much detail about the Bible story, but there's another kind of miracle that has to do with dairy. So there's a lot of dairy food and a lot of oil. And it's like almost like all the foods, kind of all the traditional Hanukkah foods take on this either dairy or oil element. So if you think about like latkas, which are potato pancakes fried in oil, there's, I mean, there's variations of that, which are not just potatoes, but even zucchini latkas or sweet potato latkas. Um, and then there's donuts, which are fill like these filled donuts, which are fried, obviously, but like a lot of people will make them at home. And so with dough fried in oil, completely submerged in oil. And those are, I would say, the two most iconic foods. And then there's like if you've ever heard of playing dreidel, a lot of playing dreidel happens, and that's usually play with a chocolate called gelt, which is like these chocolate coins, which I'm sure you've seen in Trader Joe's and in supermarkets. So there's like a lot of chocolate, a lot of donuts, and a lot of a lot of latkas. And those are kind of like if you're celebrating Hanukkah, those are usually around. So those would be the traditions. And then there's of course the lighting of the menorah, and and there's a lot of songs that get sung, and it's really a time of togetherness. I think, like most holidays, a lot of kind of Hanukkah parties and seeing family and getting together, there is gift giving. And I think that is the intensity of the gift giving. Like there are like some people who do it. There are many traditions with gift giving, but that really is not a religious decision. That's like a family decision. So, like growing up, I got one present and then maybe another one through the eight days. Some people get one every night, some people get all eight, and they can decide when they want to open it, but there's no religious significance to that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so going off with the food piece. Yes. Because as we were saying, yeah, that's the direction we're going.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, dairy rich foods, you know, oil-rich foods. Thinking of the population that we work with, there could be a lot of food fears that come in with some of those types of foods. So curious to just hear, you know, some of your experience with that and maybe some of the ways that we could help people reframe some of those thoughts if they are having some of those fears and thoughts come in.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Ooh, I have a lot to say here. Okay. So there's the food piece. And then I just I think sometimes we forget, even in eating disorders, that there's this other really big piece, which is that it's eight days. So, like that's a that's a huge piece that sometimes in conversations we forget. It's not just one really triggering day, it's eight days. So I think that people who either are recovering or recovered or still struggling, or even people just who I think, you know, I have many patients who I see who are not necessarily struggling with an eating disorder, but even and they're seeing me for completely for just anxiety or whatever, other things. And even for like the mainstream population, I think eight days of celebrating and being with maybe with family for each of those and being with around that food for eight days is hard. So so for the for the person who is quote unquote not struggling, it's also challenging. It presents challenging challenges, especially in the society that we're in, especially with a lot of the comments that get said around Hanukkah. I think that the Jewish community is not immune to those, like you, there's a lot of comments about like working off the oil after the holiday or you know, resisting for how many days can you resist, or how many donuts can you, you know, there's just talk, a lot of talk when you're surrounded by oil, just like there is in, you know, just like you would find in another, let's say, donut shop or, you know, other heavy type foods. And then there is, there really is a real heaviness to to eating foods like this for eight days. So there is the reality that, you know, if you are having Hanukkah parties for the whole time, you you may experience a different physical sensations than you do the rest of the year. You aren't necessarily eating, you know, your regular like whatever your normal foods are. So there is something real to it that isn't just about triggers or just about staying present. There really is a physical difference in the food being served and planned around you. So I'll say that. And then another piece I'm gonna throw in is that I think it's really important for patients to plan it out and have conversations with people, their support people or their clinicians or their parents or whoever they trust to help make the week manageable because I I do think it's a heavy week and there's a lot of on time with people, which can be challenging even just like I think in one of your shows you said Thanksgiving. Like, how do you manage the being on with these different personalities or people? Like, if you're gonna be spending more than one day with people, it's that much more challenging. So I think being realistic about what you can handle, getting to a place of comfort with your family or with your friends in in communication and being honest about how much you really can attend or shouldn't attend, or how much to participate, how much not to participate, and being deliberate about like where your participation would be the most meaningful both to yourself and to your family or to your friends. So I think kind of taking a like a I think taking a a view of how what how best can I be successful in this week, but also being flexible in that like that might not end up looking like like just like any time we plan, I think we have to always allow for I may actually feel be feeling better and I can attend the thing I I didn't think I could attend, or you know, thinking that I can do this and I actually can't, you know, like four days was enough for me. And that doesn't mean you can't participate in the things that like Hanukkah, the like basics of Hanukkah, which is lighting the candles and singing the songs and saying the blessings. The food really is tradition, it's like tradition and it's meaningful, but it's not a requirement. So for those who are strict about Jewish law, eating those foods is not part of Jewish law. So there that you know, there are nuances here that can be spoken about and, you know, problem solved. So yeah. And then I'm also gonna add, one of the biggest things I talk to patients about is like, what is there is really what value do they want to show up with to Hanukkah? Like, do they want to participate in this? How do they want to model Hanukkah, participation in Hanukkah for their children? A lot of parents will that will really motivate them. Like, do they want to be restricting from these foods or do they want to be participating in a way that shows their children that they can participate and be okay? So sometimes a lot of a lot of conversations around what values do they want to show up to Hanukkah with. And a lot of times people will say, I want to be able to participate and eat these foods that are during the year, not foods I'm yet comfortable eating, but during Hanukkah, for the sake of participation, modeling for my children, finding the meaning, accessing the joy, I do want to try to have some of these foods. And sometimes just have given that you're sort of saying, here's a fear food that I'm not actually in the rest of the year really ready to touch or go near. But like during this limited time and space for these wider, bigger values that I want that I'm aiming for or striving for, those can be like, you know, the it's almost like the anxiety could be put on hold and the values can be accessed. I've seen that in a lot of people, especially in parents who want to model for their children, how healthy participation in the holiday could look. So oftentimes that modeling for their kids can help them overcome the anxiety because the bigger values are that much, I guess, that meaningful to them or that, you know, that there are strong impulses toward recovery.
SPEAKER_00:You just said so many good things, and I'm so obsessed with this.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I wait. I'm like stopping, but I I probably have more, I probably have more. But we can stop there for now. If I think of more, I mean Yeah. Yeah, I mean, we didn't even talk about like what is it like to be with family for eight days or you know, just holiday time in general, but I but I guess those are more general, so I'm just gonna keep it Hanukkah specific, but just I'm gonna say as an addendum, like along with all of the other holidays kind of stressors and triggers.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. No, and I love, I really love all the pieces that you just said because you weren't just talking about the client, you were just talking about the food. You also brought in like how to support systems could also be a part of the day. And I feel like that's also really great because I know in a few of our holiday episodes, we've talked about how can support systems be there. So I like that you kind of just like went into that naturally and organically because I think uh it is just like you were uh highlighting, it is really hard to do this for a day, right? And I know Maggie and I were talking about we were talking about in another episode how support systems might be doing their own things. So it might be hard for them to be on top of themselves, to then be able to remember what can I do for my person and all that stuff. So doing that for a day can be very difficult. Ensuring that they can be present for their loved one for eight days also is a lot. So it's one of those, so it's definitely a holiday where everybody I feel like can feel the pressure and that heaviness of what that struggle and what recovery can look like. So I'm really glad that you highlighted that. One piece that I'm really uh glad that you also brought up uh in how I define it is you were explaining what it's like to be human versus what it's like to have an eating disorder and how the two of them can look very similar. The example I took that from was when you were saying you're eating all these foods and you're with people for eight days straight, and anybody recovering or not is going to feel that. And I feel like for me personally, that's been such a theme within my sessions for the past week of well, I'm sick, well, I'm, you know, I'm grieving, I'm struggling with stress, I'm experiencing all of these real life things. And there, and people might say to me, Well, so I feel like my eating has been different. I feel like it's a little more scattered, I feel like I'm, you know, my portions are different, whatever have you. And it's like, okay, but you're feeling it's normal, but what is the intention? And so I love that you brought that here because it's a holiday. Even the biggest extroverts, like myself, will be like, I need a TV timeout from people. Like, I can't do this anymore. So, on top of that, and I love fried food, as Maggie knows, fast food is my number one food group, but like having that type of food for eight days straight is also going to be a lot, right? So I love that you also highlighted that to normalize that experience for people as well.
SPEAKER_03:You said that. Yeah, actually, can I say something about the fried food? Um I also want to say that because there is no, and this is like, you know, spans religious observance. So, like from kind of like the most secular observing Hanukkah like menorah lighters to the most religious, there really is no law about there are like Jewish laws that are kind of required to follow in the strictest homes. And even though these are traditions and they're beautiful, there is no law about these foods in particular. That's not always true for all Jewish holidays. So in this case, it is also helpful to normalize. And this is also eating disorder versus not, like in my own home. We, my family and I cannot eat those types of food for eight days. We just don't feel good. And if the holiday doesn't require it, it is a bit, we have like the we play dreidel, like we don't play dreidel for eight days. It just like it takes on its own kind of life. Like it's okay to not have those foods every day. And it's okay to not have, you know, dairy every night. It could many nights could look like your normal meals. So, you know, many families will choose like the they'll have a Hanukkah party or they'll attend a Hanukkah party or two or three. And then on the other nights, they're lighting candles and they're saying the blessings, but then their dinner looks like their normal dinner, and the rest of the day looks like their normal day because they're still going to work. It's it's not a heavy observance, it's not a holiday of heavy absorbance. So there's not like a lot of, there's not temple going and there's not a lot of rituals that need to be done. It's a lot of togetherness and the food could really look the way it normally does. So there's also a lot of wiggle room in terms of your comfort and in terms of your family's comfort and how much dairy they want and how much fried food they want. So, and and I'll say, just like most things, the donuts and the fried food, like after a couple of days, they sort of lose their, everyone kind of loses their appetite for those foods. So after a couple of days, I'm just speaking for my own house. Like after a couple of days, like nobody wants them anymore because they've had they've just had them for four days. So that is an option, also. Like, that's something that people who are recovering should know. I hope they know. And and that's true even for just people who are just struggling. In general, with food or other holiday things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah, it's nice to hear that there's there's sort of this like meet yourself where you're at kind of theme that I feel like you highlighted. Of you know, and we talked about this when we talked about Thanksgiving as well. Of you know, some people, what's meeting them where they're at is like truly having a full plan for a holiday. Some people, it is more intuitive. So I like that concept. And and you also kind of looped in the concept of food habituation, which I love and always think is super interesting, which is an intuitive eating concept, which is just about how when we normalize and neutralize these foods, like a donut, for example, you know, we include it in, and when we feel that neutrality with it, some days we want it and some days we don't want it. And both are okay. And all of my friends and family know this, and a lot of my clients know this too. But like, donuts are my favorite food. So as you're talking about donuts, I'm like, oh, it sounds so great. But I always say to people, like, yeah, donuts are my favorite food, but that doesn't mean that I'm constantly having donuts. It doesn't mean that I never have donuts. It's, you know, there's this ebb and flow with it that comes in because there is that neutrality with it, where sometimes we want those foods and other times we're like, I'm good and I want something else.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And we love variety as humans, so I can also see just like a natural craving for variety coming in too.
SPEAKER_03:Right. A hundred percent. Yeah. I I think some some people, I think Hanukkah in recovery means can take on different meanings for different people. Some people will view it as like an opportunity to like take a step in their recovery. I want to participate in this holiday the way that is meaningful, the way people around me are. I want to enjoy these foods with these people. And so it is an encouraging as we get closer, it can be encouraging and almost exciting. Like, I think I can take this step now. And then for other people, it's oh my gosh, so scary. And girls in school, like the my adolescent patients, are like, you know, there's donut, like leaving off to Hanukkah, there's donuts and latkas and gelt in school. And that can be really scary because it's like their support person might not be a friend. So they're in school and they're sort of faced with like all these foods around them. And and so it can be really tricky. There's a lot of like, you know, there's a lot of stuff leading up to Hanukkah. Like the the food start pot. Like I was just last night at like at an engagement party, and there were already like Hanukkah food doubt. So like it, it's just like it's kind of all around. And so a lot of patients will also start to get nervous or scared. And so there, there I feel like support is really helpful, having more than one support person, getting extra support from a clinician, planning out the day's food so that you're what you're eating a normal food schedule of food, whether there's a Hanukkah party or not, just like preparing could really help with the anxiety around the dread of facing these eight days of what feels like eight days of triggers, but really doesn't have to be.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. One thing you brought up earlier, too, that I wrote down. So if you do see me looking down, that's why, because I'm writing things down so my mom brain doesn't forget. Um but so one thing that you brought up too was the word guilt. And I know that comes up a lot with our clients, right? Especially around holidays. And I think it's interesting because again, it's not just one day, it's eight days. But I but it's also, you know, the religious piece on top of it. I feel like that can also bring such a heavy feeling of guilt. So I'm also curious what you would suggest for clients when, you know, maybe they're saying to you, I feel guilty if I'm not honoring the religion and I'm not having certain foods, or I'm not doing the certain not doing like a heavy observance day, or you're not having a certain type of food. Is there a lot of guilt, punishment, compensation, and things like that? And how do you support somebody through that?
SPEAKER_03:Oh my gosh, I love this topic so much. Okay. It will probably be better in another episode because Hanukkah doesn't have that, it's not laden with that guilt. It's really like an optional. These foods are like, I mean, for lack of a better word, like icing on the cake. Like it's like, it's like fun. It's let's have fun. And the reason, there's reasoning behind it, which is beautiful and we teach our kids. And that's why it takes like it's it's part of like the education around Hanukkah because there was this miracle of oil. There were some miracles that had to do with dairy, and so we're like celebrating that. And these are huge, and we're, you know, we're like, we're yeah, the whole holiday is about celebrating this, and we're we it even goes into our foods, we're celebrating it in every way possible. So it's a it's a it it can take on a beautiful framing, but it's not in any way required. The only guilt I could see, not I don't wanna, I can't, I the only guilt that's coming to mind that a patient could kind of struggle with would be like they want to do, they want to participate the way they used to, or the way their peers or family just how enjoy these foods. And and that's not a Hanukkah unique guilt, and that's not a religion-specific guilt. So that's just like I wish I could, you know, have a Starbucks drink, like my friends, or like really an experience that if you're struggling with eating, isn't probably very new. It's just it happens to be coming up in Hanukkah because maybe you have really warm childhood memories and growing up, this was your favorite flavor of the donut filling, right? So there I could see like maybe not guilt but longing. Like there, there I would make a distinction between guilt and longing there. But for another time, there are some holidays that require foods and so and they are part of the Jewish observance to the point where they are kind of Jewish law. So that is a topic to be to be mind one day because because it can be very difficult. I will say just like I'll touch on it real quick, because just like in the name of religion and food, that Judaism takes a very, very compassionate stance towards mental health and even in eating disorder struggles. And even I've had patients who are very, very religious and never thought that they could, you know, in their recovery make Jewish observance allowances in the name of recovery. And I've I have yet to meet sort of like a a rabbi or a Jewish leader who has not, you know, who has not given full permission to take recovery the way that it needs to go, at the pace that it needs to go. So while patients may struggle very, very much because maybe they carry sort of like I have to do it like this, the reality is that it doesn't have to look like that.
SPEAKER_00:I love that. I know I was just talking to a client earlier, too, of you know, of that piece about the rabbi, of how, you know, I've had clients at higher levels of care and an outpatient of like getting that blessing of being able to, you know, get exemptions or to do certain things or not do certain things. And I so I do love that the Jewish religion is so mental health, like pro-mental health, because it does allow clients to feel less guilt, might not necessarily take the guilt away because it's so heavy for clients, but I do love the support that the clients get from everybody within that community. I think it's such a beautiful thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. And I would encourage like anyone who's listening to like seek out that because they may think things. Many people have assumptions about what they are and aren't allowed to do in observance of Judaism that may not be true if you're if they're struggling. And it could be very, very minor struggling also. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we'll definitely have you back on. I just wrote on our in our episode topic list to bring you back. So thank you.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that was my whole goal. That was the point of me trying to say that. I was like, I need to be on again. So yeah. It was a good plug. Perfect. Happy to anyway, anytime.
SPEAKER_01:Is there anything we haven't asked you yet about about Hanukkah that you would want to share with our listeners?
SPEAKER_03:I can't think of anything else. I'm gonna hang up and think of things, but I think that's it.
SPEAKER_01:Can I ask you, if you're comfortable answering, what your favorite Hanukkah tradition or part of Hanukkah is? Oh, good question.
SPEAKER_03:I didn't know that was coming. Hold on. Yeah, okay. In my family, we came from many generations of giving money instead of gifts. So I actually take one of those giant gelts. If you've ever seen, like they make these giant galts, like the size of your face. So for my kids' gift, I just I like to continue that tradition, but I like to just tape it on. I tape money onto the back of the gelt. So now they know it's there's money, but like for a couple years when they were little, they would just be like this giant chocolate, and then they would discover the money. That's our that's kind of like the excitement of Hanukkah at our house.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Were you asking about food specifically, Maggie?
SPEAKER_01:No, no, that was great. That's so fun. I'm like the jackpot, right? Feeling that you you flip it over and you see money. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it is really fun. But now they expect it. So I'm trying to think of another way to present it, but oh well.
SPEAKER_00:You should make it a scavenger hunt to find the guilt with the money on it.
SPEAKER_03:No, there's gonna be tears. There's gonna be tears and fighting with a scavenger hunt. All I can hear is fighting. When you say scavenger hunt, I'm not that kind of mom.
SPEAKER_02:So funny.
SPEAKER_03:I'm not creative. No. My husband to make it easy.
SPEAKER_01:My husband is an expert gift guesser. Like he can guess anything. So I have tried all the tricks possible, like putting things in like size boxes that don't make sense for the item, or putting it in like multiple boxes, no matter what. He can guess every single thing. So I hear you because the creativity is it's it's tough. Do you guys play a guessing game? I mean, I don't guess, I just want to open, but he just can look at it, he shakes it, he just can guess. It's it's it's a very interesting hidden talent. It frustrates me beyond belief because I try now. I'm like, you're never gonna get it. I thought it was a perfect thing, and then somehow he always gets it. I have no poker face, so I just start laughing and like give it away listed like that's funny.
SPEAKER_03:Well, good luck.
SPEAKER_00:Is it is it a one and done? Like he gets it on the first guess, or it's like within the first like three to five.
SPEAKER_01:Some of them it's one and done, some of them it's a couple, but our tradition, well, just I think you know this. Yeah, but our tradition just for the two of us is we we open gifts like December 1st. This year we actually he opened gifts in November because our thought is like if you could get more value out of it, why like have it under the tree waiting, you know, a whole month? So we also like open gifts like much earlier and like throughout the month of December. So it'll be like after a long day of work, I'll be like, why don't you open a gift? And then he'll go and he'll just kind of like shake the box and like move it around and be like, okay, these are you know, those shoes, whatever, like something like that, and he'll guess it. And it's just unbelievable every time.
SPEAKER_03:Do you do you not he doesn't open all of them at once? No, so just like whenever you're like, hey, just open a gift.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Like last year we did like almost one like a couple days in a row was like one basically every single day, like a stocking stopper or an MBA. That's fun. Yeah, cool. All right, nice um any resources that you would share for people if they're like eas recovery, mental health related to Hanukkah?
SPEAKER_03:You know, not specific to Hanukkah, just the usual eating disorder resources. It's really like it's just it's similar to Halloween, it's similar to Thanksgiving. It just comes with similar, similar triggers, similar stuff. So, like for anyone who's using those skills, like this is just another opportunity to use the skills. I would say just with the with the eight-day kind of pressure, just to just to decide that you don't have to do that for eight days. You know, you can do it as much or as little as you want to. That's really, yeah, no, no specific resources to Hanukkah, I would say, except maybe you're someone's therapist. I would rely a lot heavily a lot more heavily during that time if they're working or if they're available. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you guys.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for hanging out with us. Yeah, this was fun. And don't worry, you will be you will be back because especially once Maggie puts something in the document, it occurs. So now, since it's written in, you're coming, girl. So get ready. Buckle up. Thank you, Tamar, so much for coming. We really appreciate it. And like we just said, you will definitely be back for more, but we really appreciate you taking the time to hang with us today.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you so much for having me, guys, and for including Hanukkah in your holiday episode. And happy holidays. Thank you. Thanks, guys.
SPEAKER_00:Bye. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health, specializing in eating disorder treatment. Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.
SPEAKER_01:Their expert team works with you to achieve recovery and avoid the need for higher levels of care. Visit www.hilltopbehavioral health.com because healing happens here.
SPEAKER_00:Hello, everybody, and welcome to part two of this episode.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, welcome back. I just want to say too how great Tamar is and everything that she shared, so helpful, so wonderful. We've been working together so much, and she's just lovely to collaborate with and a lovely person. So if anybody out there is looking for an FBT therapist, highly recommend.
SPEAKER_00:She's phenomenal her personality, just like I love her energy. She's just so great. So I was glad that she was on. But Maggie and I also wanted to talk about Christmas, you know, in this holiday spirit with you know all the different ones occurring during this time of year. We did just wanted to include Christmas as well. So Maggie and I, in this holiday spirit, you know, wanted to bring tomorrow to talk about Hanukkah. And we also wanted to tap into Christmas and really discuss, you know, the same things that we have for the past few holidays of triggers and whatnot. And so I know, you know, speaking from experience, uh Christmas is similar to Hanukkah in the sense that it's multiple days, right? Like it's not just one like Thanksgiving, it's not eight like Hanukkah, but there are two days of it. So I can understand the pressures and the discomforts people feel, especially if they have uh not especially, but when a family, like an Italian family, has like the seven fishes, and some of the seven fishes aren't always might not look appetizing to some people. Like I can also understand, like we were talking about with Tamar, like the pressures of do I have this food even if I don't like it? Like I feel like too, a population we haven't talked a lot about is the RFID population. And even thinking about like the seven fishes, seafood's an interesting texture. Seafood's an interesting smell, right? I'm a big seafood girly, but I can understand if someone's struggling with RFID, how seafood can be one of those things that can be very daunting. And so I can also like I hear and I see and I validate those that struggle with that certain eating disorder, how then seeing having two holidays where there's seafood and pasta and all of the different things, how it can also be very disheartening because it's like, how do I deal with this? And how am I going to have the connection and the time with all of my family? So I think it is interesting that all the holidays have the same theme, even though like the premise of them is also different but similar too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. There's a there's a lot of a lot of similarities with themes that come in. And yeah, it's interesting that you brought up the amount of time because when Tamar was speaking about that, which I think was such an excellent point that she was making of, you know, Hanukkah in the 80s, and you know, how long that can feel, not just when it comes to food, but the socialization piece and you know, the time with other people and all of that. And I was thinking about that when it comes to Christmas as well. Like, right, the technical holiday is Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, but even just thinking of my own, you know, kind of plans personally, it's like, well, I'm seeing friends on the 23rd for dinner, and then there's the 24th, then there's the 25th, then there's something on the 26th, the 27th. So there's so much more that goes on too. And even how Tamar was saying, you know, she gave the example of being at a gathering yesterday and there being Hanukkah foods, like, you know, there's work places are doing Christmas cookie contests, or there's holiday parties, and you know, there's there's just a lot throughout this entire time of year when it comes to food and socialization and all of then, you know, all of the beauty and the joy and the wonderfulness that that can bring up, but also all of the, you know, trigger challenge, you know, and difficulties that can come up with that as well.
SPEAKER_00:That's such a good point because this time of year there are so many Christmas parties or holiday parties, and it's not just work or family, it's friends, it's you know, you're walking down the street. Like I know Morristown will do like pop-up Christmas places. So like you're walking down the street and places will have cookies or hot chocolate or just like come on in. Like restaurants are also very different, right? And I think it is overwhelming to see how much holiday things are around us when it when you are in recovery because I can understand how people friends are like, oh, there's like Christmas lights in the center of town, let's go for a walk or oh, one of these restaurants really decorates, let's go there for dinner. And a lot is always focused around food, but I feel like the holiday season, it's amplified of food. So I can, you know, I'm with you. I think it is understanding as to why people get so overwhelmed and things of that nature. And I think it's uh definitely a beautiful thing when you think about what people get from holidays, the connection, the love, the uh spirit, the traditions, hello. Like the traditions, all the different things, like it is such a beautiful time. Uh but with beauty, there is the the difficult. So I understand like how this is going to be hard for clients as well.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. And I loved the the thing that Tamara talked about of how for you know people working on their relationship with food, like the holiday might actually be a motivating factor where you know, I want to be able to eat the donut with my kids or, you know, with my family or for myself or whatever it might be. Because I also know, too, when we talk so much about like exposures and the way that we, you know, have these different exposures with food, like a holiday can be a really daunting time to do an exposure. And you brought up RFIDs. So I would love to actually do a whole episode on that because I think there's so much to talk about there. How, especially for people with RFID, like we don't typically recommend that you're doing an exposure at a holiday table where there are so many different food smells, things to look at, people all over. That because it's really overstimulating. Yeah. You know, and for some people, like Tamar brought up, there could be that motivating factor that comes along with holidays, where, you know, the joy, the beauty of the holiday, the togetherness, time, like all of those values can, in a sense, like surpass some of the challenge that's there. So I think that's such a great point, too. Cause I think sometimes we shy away from, you know, from the holidays, but it is truly about, you know, really meeting an individual where they're at. For some people, that's not doing an exposure around the holiday or at the holiday table. And for other people, it is tapping into that value system of, you know, these are the reasons why I actually want to do an exposure or have this challenge food at the holidays. So I think there's such a great amount of like individuality that can come into this as well.
SPEAKER_00:I agree. And I think people don't realize that there can be something individualistic. I don't think that's a word, but like there can be a lot of individuality within holidays. And I know it doesn't always feel that way because it is such like a family group-oriented thing. But I think it is always important to remember that you don't need to compare. There doesn't need to be a just because one person is doing that means I have to, right? Everybody has their own reason and everybody has their own experience. And so within that, you can do something different, and that's okay. You have to figure out like meet yourself where you're at and go towards that. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Now we've talked about holidays a lot. So I I'm curious, and and I can answer this as well, but I'm curious if for you, if there is like one takeaway that you want people to have, whether it's like a a tip or just just kind of one thing that you want people to grasp going into the holiday season, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00:I think I'm gonna piggyback off of Tamar and what you just brought up too of what do you want your holidays to look like? How do you mirror? Okay, maybe there's two things because of course I can never just do one and another one just came into my head. But the the first one absolutely is values. And if you know what it is that you want your holiday to look like as a recovered person, how can you mirror that here? It doesn't have to look exact, it doesn't have to be perfect. Just what is something you can do to be like, this is what I hope my holidays can be when I'm recovered. This is what I'm looking forward to, as well as how do you make it individual? How do you make it about you? It's not to please somebody else, it's not to portray something that you know, trying to people please, whatever have you. How do you do it for you and how do you make it what you want it to be? Those are my two. I love it. What about you?
SPEAKER_01:I also have two. I thought I only had one, but then when you said two, I'm like, oh, I have two. Okay, first one I would say, because it's similar to holidays, vacations, it's kind of all similar to me with this, where everything about those days is different from your typical routine. Like your sleep is different, your stress is different, your schedule for the day, you're not in, you know, in school, at work, like everything is going to be different. It's okay for things around food to be different, it's okay for the timing to be different, it's okay for your plate to look different. And I think that's a really important piece because so often there are stressors around food that come in. And I just, you know, I want people to understand that it can be okay. And, you know, that your whole day is gonna be a little bit different, but there's also kind of like a beauty and a and a fun to all of that too. And then I would say the second thing is doing at least one thing, like just for yourself, like something self-care. Because I think we get caught up, and you know, myself included, in like the hustle and bustle, and there's so many people to see, and there's so much to do. And then you kind of leave those couple of days, the week, whatever it might be, feeling burnt out. People get sick after the holidays so often because they're, you know, going a million miles an hour and not taking that time to like actually rest and relax. So I feel like it's overwhelming to think like, how can I incorporate rest and relaxation into every single aspect of this? Like, we honestly probably can't. But if there's like one thing, you know, whether it's you're sitting down watching a Christmas movie, whether it's you're going for a walk, whether it's you're getting your nails done, like you're saying no to a plan, like whatever it is, just do one thing just for you. And like that can be a gift to yourself.
SPEAKER_00:I love that within that you said say no to something, because I don't think people realize that saying no is okay, in addition to that could be for you and how important it is to set those boundaries, right? So many of the same themes. But I love that you put that one in there. And I agree, doing something for yourself during this holiday season with all the hustle and bustle is crucial. Because you need that mental clarity big time.
unknown:Uh right.
SPEAKER_01:Uh yeah, yeah, for sure. Uh what would you say is uh your favorite holiday tradition?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, as a kid or now, because they're different. Uh okay, let's let's hear them both. So as a kid, and we don't do this now because like obviously with significant others' families and all that stuff, like we don't have it anymore. But when I was a kid, we would always go to my great uncle Pete's house and we would have like a big Thanksgiving or Thanksgiving hollow. We would have a big Christmas Eve dinner, we would do the Seven Fishes, we would have all the pastas, we would be there for 12 hours, like we always the Italians always do. But then my immediate family, we would come home and we would watch It's a Wonderful Life, like that black and white Christmas movie. And it would just be me and my siblings and my my parents all like sitting on the couch watching the movie. And so that was definitely one of my favorites. And Christmas morning, like even and there's a picture of it like on Facebook because I just have it in my head, like even when we were in college and post-college, like we all we did this for a very long time, where my siblings and I would wait at the top of the stairs until my parents said it was okay for us to come run down and like open presents, like just it being ridiculous as 20-year-olds sitting at the top of the stairs waiting to run downstairs for Christmas morning, like just the consistency of like the beauty and the magic of Christmas. And she's crying you can't do this with me as a mom now, and post like postparum hormones are real. Like the beauty of all of that, I loved. Now, as an adult, just being with family is my favorite part of it. But now having Christopher, everything's just gonna be mayhem, and how excited I'm gonna be with all like the traditions we'll have.
SPEAKER_01:I don't mean to laugh, but she is no, we can laugh at me.
SPEAKER_00:I'm too it's you not too emotional, but I'm just a very emotional human.
SPEAKER_01:It was just the irony of your like and the beauty and excitement, and then like the tears. Perfect timing for comedic relief. What's yours, Mags? Oh, I was thinking about this because I knew I was gonna ask tomorrow and I knew I was gonna ask you. And I feel like I don't have a specific favorite. I was really trying to think about it. And like so many wonderful Christmas memories, but I don't feel like I have a favorite. And I also think a big piece of that too is Christmas has looked so different. I feel like every single year. Like there's some similarities, but like there's been a lot of moving, for example. Like, I've moved a lot. My, you know, some of my family has moved, and just you know, with my spouse, like we kind of do Christmas a little bit differently every year, of like when we see family and what day we're traveling, and you know, all of that. So I feel like there isn't a super specific tradition. I just think overall, like it is so nice to get to see so many people. I love getting to see both of our families, and like we're fortunate that we can do that. You know, it's there's there's distance in between and a couple hour drive, but like it is possible where we don't have to like miss a year or anything like that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But I don't know if I really have a specific tradition. Well, I guess I will say I do love Christmas Eve and always have loved it as a kid and and have always loved it as an adult. And I guess this is relevant for people too. Our Christmas Eve is going to look really different this year because of, you know, some moving that has happened and you know, like all my cousins getting older and not having everybody around. And I think for a lot of people, Christmas looks different as you get older, and there's like a grief or a sadness that could come in with it. So I just want to mention that piece of it too. I feel like I'm actually really excited this year to just get like a lot of time with our families. But I also recognize for people too, as you get older, like it changes, and that can that can feel sad, and you're allowed to feel sad about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Splitting holidays is hard.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, it is. And we we have always done the seven fishes as well. So not like the super traditional, but my grandma makes a seafood salad that has probably seven in there, and then there's usually a couple others. Yeah, and I'm also love anything fish and seafood. So I do, I love that menu. You know, I'm not a Thanksgiving menu person, but I'm a Christmas Eve menu person.
SPEAKER_00:I love it. I mean, it is, I'm biased, but it is better.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, it's so good. It's so good. All the Italian food, like the anti-past, and then all the all the fish, the pasta. I mean, yes, it's it's so, so good. The appetizers are good. It's great.
SPEAKER_00:I saw something on Instagram, but again, you know, take things with a grain of salt when you see it on social media. But I saw that like Italy's quiz Italian cuisine was like number one in the world, and I was like, yeah, it is. Domination.
SPEAKER_01:Was it you who wrote that Instagram post?
SPEAKER_00:Shh, don't tell. Uh no, but I agree with them. It's so good.
SPEAKER_01:So good. I agree too.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. This is a good one. I love having guests. I've missed having guests on.
SPEAKER_01:I know. I agree. I think yeah, having Tamara on was was so great. I could listen to her talk for for two hours, so I'm happy to have her back anytime she wants. And yeah, we just, you know, we want to wish everybody the happiest of holidays. And we really appreciate, you know, everybody listening, welcoming us back for season two. And, you know, all of the interaction, all of the questions people have sent in, topics, all of that. So this was our our holiday, December holiday episode, and we have lots of good episodes coming up for you.
SPEAKER_00:Mm-hmm. Thank you, everyone, and we will catch you in the next one. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Nourish and Empower Podcast.
SPEAKER_01:We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.
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