Nourish & Empower
Have you ever felt like you could use a little extra support when working on your relationship with food and your body? Join Jessica, a Licensed Professional Counselor, and Maggie, a Registered Dietitian, along with special guests, as we chat about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, body image, and so much more. Together, we have over 15 years of experience working in eating disorders and mental health treatment. Let’s redefine, reclaim, & restore the true meaning of health on The Nourish & Empower Podcast.
Nourish & Empower
Save Your Leftovers Not Your Appetite: Decreasing Thanksgiving Food Guilt
The holiday table can feel like a minefield—“save your appetite,” unsolicited body comments, and the pressure to perform a perfect plate. We cut through the noise with a simple plan: treat Thanksgiving like a normal eating day so you can show up fed, calm, and present. That means breakfast, a snack if you need it, and a meal timeline that matches your family’s schedule, whether you sit down at 3 p.m. or 6:30. We also unpack the biggest misconception of the season: most people don’t overeat because they love the menu; they arrive to the table underfed and overstressed. When you fuel consistently, you reduce overfullness, lift your mood, and actually enjoy the food and the people in front of you. We talk through real-world strategies for different recovery stages—from highly structured plans to gentle frameworks that leave room for intuition. You’ll hear how to handle turkey trots (fuel first or skip without guilt), how to navigate comments about plates and bodies with direct or indirect boundaries, and how to build a pocket-sized recovery toolbox. Think voice memo pep talks, grounding objects, quick breathing resets, a supportive text thread, and a plan for stepping away when you need space. We also give you full permission to eat later if you’re hungry again—biologically normal, not a moral issue. Food can be part of coping when it’s mindful and kind. Savor the pie, share a story, and let nourishment support connection rather than control it. Walk away with practical nutrition, boundary scripts, and a calmer way to move through the day before, during, and after the holiday without compensation or shame. If this conversation helps, tap follow, share it with someone who needs a softer holiday, and leave a review so others can find the show.
Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.
Resource links:
ANAD: https://anad.org/
NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/
NAMI: https://nami.org/home
Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/
NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/
How to find a provider:
https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us
https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand
Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)
Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)
If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.
Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.
SPEAKER_01:Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health.
SPEAKER_03:Specializing in eating disorder treatment, Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.
SPEAKER_01:Their expert team works with you to achieve recovery and avoid the need for a higher level of care.
SPEAKER_03:Visit www.hilltopbehavioral health.com because healing happens here. Hi everyone. Happy Thanksgiving week and welcome to this week's episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast. Hello, everybody. Happy Thanksgiving week. Yes, we are going to be talking more today, kind of piggybacking off of last week's episode where we talked about holidays and boundary setting. Today we're going to be talking about how to plan nutritionally for the Thanksgiving holiday. And so before we start, trigger warning, we will be discussing nutrition, body image, and mental health today. Listener discretion is advised. As a reminder, this show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resources in the show notes. Okay. Week four, baby. I know. Wow. When you say it like that, I'm like, it doesn't feel like it's been a month.
SPEAKER_01:Oh no. Sometimes I feel like four weeks and a month sound very different. Where four weeks, I'm like, oh, okay. But then when you say a month, I'm like, that's long.
SPEAKER_03:Well, time is so weird lately because I know I said this last week, but it doesn't feel like Thanksgiving to me. And now that we are, you know, we're truly entered into Thanksgiving week.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It still doesn't feel like Thanksgiving to me. So it's just hard to believe that it's the end of November, especially with Thanksgiving feeling a little bit later this year than it usually is. It still doesn't feel like that, though.
SPEAKER_01:No. And I feel like weather to me is always the thing that makes me feel like it is the time of the year. And I feel like our fall has been so wonky where it's been like majority in the 80s, and then all of a sudden it's just like in the 30s and 40s all the time. So I feel like we didn't get like fall fall. And I Thanksgiving always reminds me of that type of weather. So I feel like we just jumped into December and we missed over Thanksgiving. So I'm with you when it comes to that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, I I understand that. I mean, yeah, it was 75 degrees here yesterday, and I was in shorts and a t-shirt. So it really doesn't feel like Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_01:Do you think that's part of it? Like because like getting acclimated to the weather for this new holiday season for you.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, but I do feel like I felt this way the past few years too. Where it just feels like the holidays do kind of all of a sudden arrive and you don't feel like it, like you're that ready for it.
SPEAKER_01:No, not at all. I'm with you. I'm with you.
SPEAKER_02:And then they're gone in the blink of an eye.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_02:It's almost like wedding planning.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Yeah, no, that's fair. Yeah, you spend two years planning a four-hour party. So how are you feeling that it's Christopher's first major holiday?
SPEAKER_01:So emotional. I have the cutest outfit for him that my godmother got me. Well, got me, got him. And when she gave it to me, she was like, so he can match his dad on Thanksgiving because Matt is a vest guy. He loves a good vest. So Christopher has these cute little like khaki-colored pants with a navy blue vest, and I'm dying to put him in it. And I'm hoping somehow I can make Matt match. And by make Matt Matt, like hoping I can, I know that I can because he has the exact same outfit. So I feel like I now have to try and coordinate, but I'm like so stoked. I can't wait.
SPEAKER_02:I didn't even know they made baby vests. Oh Maggie.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, I know I told you, but to tell our listeners, they even make baby flannel jackets because is that what they're called? Jackets, right? Yeah. And Christopher wore it to our friends giving last night and it was the cutest fucking thing. I'm like, how do I have a teenager? Which obviously I don't. He's literally three months old.
SPEAKER_02:But he just looked like so grown up. It is cute. That was a very cute low flannel outfit on him. No, I just love him so much.
SPEAKER_01:He's just a mush. Christmas, I'm just gonna die. Because Matt and I and Tucker, because obviously Tucker's involved in everything. We have this. Whenever we're home in Jersey for the holiday, we always wear we have these like Buffalo plaid onesie hooded Feeny pajamas. And we got Tucker a matching one. So like Christmas morning, we're all in the same outfit. And then to my parents' house in the morning, like we wear them. And now Christopher gets to be in it. And I like cannot wait to take a family photo of all of us in our buffalo plaid.
SPEAKER_02:That's so sweet. I know. I love a picture, and I love matching.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm soaked for all the holidays. It's gonna be very exciting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, all the things, all the things. And so you had Friendsgiving yesterday, so you've had a Thanksgiving. I had a family Thanksgiving a few weeks ago. Oh, that's fun.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, did you eat your for Thanksgiving though? Because I didn't. Yes, I did. Why did you not? Because everything's doused in dairy.
SPEAKER_03:Oh no, I was thinking about you today, actually, when I was thinking about this episode. It's like a dairy-free Thanksgiving could be a little tricky.
SPEAKER_01:So, what I did is for all of our listeners who might have a real, and I say that lovingly, but we know it's eating disorders. Sometimes we believe that we have an intolerance or an allergy when really it's the eating disorder telling us no. I packed my own food. I actually had a baby shower. I know I was just telling you this, Mikey, but I had a baby shower the day of, and it was my best friend since kindergarten, and her mom knew that I had the thing Friendsgiving after, so she was like, pack a to-go bag. So I brought Mexican food to our Friendsgiving, and I had short-ribbed shredded tacos and blackened salmon and rice, and it was so delicious. So while everybody was having their spread, I had mine, but I am actually going to eat Thanksgiving meal on Thanksgiving, and then I'm just going to because I have like gallons. I'm like very blessed with my milk production. So I'm pumping and dumping after Thanksgiving and feeding Christopher my frozen milk so I can enjoy my Thanksgiving. Yeah, there you go. How do I not have mashed potatoes? Like that's my thing. How do I not have mashed potatoes?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and they need milk and butter and sour cream and all the dairy goodness. Yes, you can't.
SPEAKER_01:And turkey. I'm like, Maggie, what did I say about last in last week's episode? Turkey skin. How do I say no? Well, that's dairy free.
SPEAKER_03:So oh well, I guess unless there's butter. And my mom coats it in butter. Okay, okay. For a second there, I was like, you could have the turkey.
SPEAKER_02:She's like, uh, Jeff.
SPEAKER_03:I'm like, not in the dairy food group, but but okay, but there's butter.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I understand. Yeah. But so I'm very, very excited about the holiday for that because I can have the whole meal.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. No, that is exciting. And so today, kind of going off of that, we wanted to kind of talk about things more nutrition related as we head into Thanksgiving in just a few days. And we appreciate all the questions that came in. So Jessica and I are gonna go through a couple of those today.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, I'm very excited. There are some good ones. So I guess the one that I want to start with, drum roll, is actually, I don't even know. They're all such good questions. I thought I had one, and then I was like, maybe not. Okay, so the one that I want to start with is what are the most common themes during the holiday season that you see and discuss with clients during sessions?
SPEAKER_03:That's a good question. Okay, most common themes, I feel like there's a lot, but I would say the most common themes are timing. Like meal timing comes up a lot, especially in the context of Thanksgiving, because oftentimes the Thanksgiving meal is like a late lunch or early dinner time. It's usually not the most typical time that somebody is eating their like lunch or dinner. So meal timing is something where we kind of will go through the day and get an opportunity to see, okay, well, if the main Thanksgiving meal is at this time, then like what will eating look like before? What will eating look like after? So a lot of hands-on planning, I would say, goes into it. And then other themes that come up, I would say who people are having the Thanksgiving meal with. And what I mean by that is, you know, if there are support people that are going to be present at the meal, if it's a bit more of a challenging environment. So we'll talk kind of through the whole day of like what are the plans? Who are we going to be with? Kind of sort of like the who, what, where, when.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:I think is probably the main way to describe it. So that way we can identify support people, we can identify possible triggers.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing.
SPEAKER_03:I typically will ask about how Thanksgiving went the year prior because I always like to say that every eating experience we have is an opportunity to learn, not an opportunity to judge or shame. So oftentimes the holiday the year prior could lead us to, okay, this is how things went, and this is how I, you know, want to approach it this year. So it helps kind of formulate some of the planning. And then I would say pending, you know, we might talk about body image, we might talk about movement if that's you know something that's applicable and you know comes up for that person. So it really does sort of depend. But I think the best way to answer it, I guess, now as I'm talking through it, is like the who, what, when, where, how answers.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. The part that I love that you brought up was the in my brain, how I took it, the comparison in the sense of like last year and how what can we do and like that learning experience. Because I think remembering what happened the year before can be really difficult. And sometimes, especially when someone is going through the throes of recovery and you know, they're struggling with their eating disorder more so, right? The voice gets louder when the holidays come. It is hard to think about what happened last year because there could have been a huge win last year that our clients had or somebody had, right? And so being able to say, okay, let me look at that and let me see what worked, what didn't work to keep improving, right? That's what it's all about. It's seeing what are the measurements and what are the goals and what are the outcomes that we've been able to identify and experience to keep the trajection of our recovery safe and solid. So then each year we're getting closer and closer to that recovered space to where then we don't have to think about it. So I love that you do that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and I appreciate you pointing out the wins too, because I think that's a big piece of it of not just, you know, what were the things that were challenging or what were the triggers, but also what were the things that worked well? And I think that comes up, you know, when we think about those big moments like the holidays, but it also can come up in the small day-to-day moments as well. You know, if it was a good week, well, what contributed to that? You know, what were some of the things that were the factors that led to things going so well or having more consistency so that way, you know, we of course talk about the challenges and and how to plan for that, but also, you know, if things are going well, we want to be able to highlight that and, you know, build off of that and and repeat that.
SPEAKER_01:Another thing that I wanted to bring up, which was it like worked so well that you said the word because it was another question that came in. Is do you suggest planning or not planning meals for the holidays? Because I feel like you saying that it can be something that happens, I can imagine for a few people are like, okay, it's normal, right? Because I feel like when it comes to recovery, it's really easy to get into the rigidity of planning what time meals and snacks and what you're eating happens. And I feel like that's such a great example of not everything is bad and not everything is good in the sense of the eating disorder can make things like planning your meals really disordered. But in moments like these where you feel chaotic because the day and the timings is so thrown off, it can actually be a great coping skill. So, what would you say, you know, do you suggest planning? And like what are your thoughts and opinions on that during a holiday season?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I think it it depends. And what I always really think about being a dietitian working in eating disorder recovery is I view my role, and I'm very visual. So I view my role like a seesaw. And so there are times where on one end of the seesaw, we have me being more prescriptive, and on the other end of the seesaw, we have a client being more intuitive. And so there are times where I am more prescriptive, right? Pending where somebody is at in their eating disorder, in their recovery process, where yeah, we might be literally walking through hour by hour on Thanksgiving. This is what this is going to look like. This is breakfast, here's snack, here's what the holiday meal looks like. Then there's kind of the one in the middle where it's like some prescriptiveness, some intuition.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And that might look like we're adding structure, but there isn't the specifics. So it might be saying, hey, you know, here's, yes, we're going to be eating breakfast, here's maybe the window of time, but we're not maybe planning out all those components of breakfast. That can be more intuitive in the moment. And then I would say on the other end, if the Seesaw, you know, kind of shifts, shifts. I'm trying to do a Seesaw and it's not really working. But if it shifts the other way, where like I become much less prescriptive and the client is much more intuitive, then we might be talking general themes of Thanksgiving, but we aren't maybe running through the nitty-gritty of, you know, here's the whole day, here's the schedule, or even like here's exactly what we're gonna be having.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. And I feel like this was also such a good example of how eating disorder recovery isn't a one size fits all, right? Because you just said like you tailor it towards who it is you're speaking to and where they are in recovery or what their family day is like, right? Because, like you said, typically, right, for people, the meal is like a late lunch, early dinner, right? My family eats at 5 30, 6 o'clock still for Thanksgiving. So ours is still like a dinner time. I mean, for me, it's definitely earlier because I'm usually like a 6 37 o'clock dinner human, but it is like everybody's schedule is so different. So being able to even just hear, no, we do it about you. And it's not this, oh, well, it has to be this way, I feel like is also something great to hear from a dietitian. Because I feel like sometimes it probably can feel not that way.
SPEAKER_03:Absolutely. And I also think too, you know, even for people who are not in recovery and you know, don't have an eating disorder, there are also days that are more hectic where we do need to have more of a plan for our meals, right? And so a lot of people on Thanksgiving who might be hosting and cooking, you know, hosting and cooking for Thanksgiving, especially, I mean, that's a wake up early to get that turkey in the oven because it needs to cook for hours. It is, it's a very involved cooking process. Like props to all the people that do it. And, you know, that might be somebody who isn't typically kind of planning out their breakfast ahead of time, let's say. But because it's such a busy day, because they have so much more on their to-do list and we don't want eating to fall to the side, it might actually then be a day of, oh yeah, I do need to have, you know, something made ahead of time for breakfast, or I do need a more convenient breakfast option to grab because I know I'm gonna be scattered doing so many things. So I also think, you know, I always like to say, like, I love practical nutrition and like being a practical dietitian. And what I mean by that is like the logistics of everything, like I think that's really important to figure out what's convenient, what do I have access to, what do I need to plan ahead of time? Because those logistics make up so much of what our our day-to-day with eating looks like.
SPEAKER_01:Do you feel like taking two questions into one here that we have two things? So maybe this is three questions coming into play because we know my brain. Do you feel like clients struggle more with movement and feeling fullness during the holidays? Or do you feel like there's another topic that is more frequent during the holiday season?
SPEAKER_03:I feel like everything I'm gonna say today is it depends. I would say it depends. Okay, I think, okay, so you said movement and fullness. Okay, so let me kind of take those one at a time. So movement, I think movement comes up more so with Thanksgiving than other holidays. That's interesting. I would say at least. Okay. Because I think there is the whole like turkey trot, you know, kind of like a very common thing that a lot of towns do, or a lot of people, you know, people's families do, where I feel like other holidays there maybe isn't like this direct movement theme that could come into it. So I do think movement probably comes up more with Thanksgiving than with other holidays. And we can definitely talk more about that. I would say fullness comes up more with Thanksgiving than any other holiday, in my opinion. I think that that's probably one of the main fears that people talk about is being overfull and you know how to cope with that and what that feels like both physically and emotionally.
SPEAKER_01:I love that you put the emotional fullness in there. Yes, therapy wins again. That's so interesting. So, what do you feel like is the reason for those things being so greater because of the Thanksgiving holiday?
SPEAKER_03:So I I will answer that by answering one of the other questions, actually. So, one of the other questions we had gotten in was what is like the biggest misconception when it comes to nutrition and Thanksgiving? And okay, I'm gonna need I'm gonna need some time to explain this because I there's a there's a lot swirling around when I think of this. So I think the biggest misconception with Thanksgiving is that people eat more than they intended to because they love Thanksgiving food so much. And I know that there are people that love Thanksgiving food because I already see your face. No, it's not processing. Can you say that again? Yes, okay. So I think the biggest misconception with Thanksgiving that I have seen in the eight or nine years that I've been helping people plan for Thanksgiving is that people feel like they eat more than they intended to on Thanksgiving, not because they love Thanksgiving food so much.
SPEAKER_01:Not because there's gonna be people that are like, well, I love Thanksgiving food.
SPEAKER_03:I know my friend Liz is listening and we have this conversation all the time. Yes, some people love Thanksgiving food. I will say the large majority of people that I talk to about Thanksgiving, they might like a dish or two, but it's not people's most favorite menu in the whole world. If we say to people, you know, if you were to plan like what your menu of all your favorite foods would be, I have not had a lot of people say it's a Thanksgiving spread. So maybe it's like mashed potatoes or mac and cheese or some of the things found at Thanksgiving. But oftentimes what I hear is that Thanksgiving foods are not actually people's favorite foods. It's not really a menu that people like the most. But I think there's a couple of reasons why there is this kind of cycle that people fall into on Thanksgiving where they feel like the outcome is I'm going to leave that meal feeling overly full, uncomfortable, stuffed. In my experience working with people, it actually doesn't have that much to do with the Thanksgiving food itself. Really, what I often see is that it's all the themes surrounding Thanksgiving. It's the get up in the morning and do the turkey trot, even if you don't want to. It's the don't eat breakfast, don't eat lunch, you know, this big meal is coming later on. Focus all of your energy on that. So, what's happening? People are getting up. They might be exercising, having not eaten, which is dangerous. They might be not eating all day, and now they're heading into a meal at three, four, five, six, seven o'clock, not eating all day, probably pretty hangry and irritable, maybe not feeling so well physically. And so the overfulness that we see on Thanksgiving is really related to the entire structure that we've created around this day, rather than the foods itself.
SPEAKER_01:Isn't it crazy how that happens? But food is always then the thing to blame.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And I think, you know, Thanksgiving, especially to me, is like we have a lot of restricted themes in diet culture to begin with. I feel like Thanksgiving is where we see it in action so much, unfortunately. Where there's a lot of judgment that comes, oh, you ate you ate breakfast today. Or, you know, or people are, you know, looking to eat breakfast, like, well, save your appetite. You have this big meal coming up later. And then again, people are going into that quote unquote big meal later, not actually seeing that many foods on the table that they like. But you're so hungry at that point because of the inconsistencies all throughout the day, that's what's really leading to the overfulness. So, my when I think about Thanksgiving, the way that I like to talk about it and structure it is have it be like a typical day of eating. Get up, have breakfast. If you're somebody that typically does movement and you want to do movement that day, great, then you can do movement that day. If you want a rest day and a day off, great. It's, you know, it could be a good rest day and a day off. But have breakfast, have, you know, have snacks throughout the day, depending what time your Thanksgiving meal is later on, have lunch, have appetizers. Like when we have it be a typical day of eating throughout the day, well, we are eating at regular intervals, we are now going into the Thanksgiving holiday, feeling more present, feeling more energized, in a way better mood, and able to actually enjoy the Thanksgiving meal so much more. I always think that that's that's the biggest misconception with Thanksgiving. And again, not to not Thanksgiving food. Some people really truly love it, and that's wonderful. I just find most often that's not what I'm seeing. And it's usually all the themes surrounding that are presenting with the way that we feel at that meal rather than like it being this really exciting meal of somebody's favorite foods.
SPEAKER_01:And I think too, if we even think about, I don't know if this is technically like science, but if we think about the way that our bodies respond to not eating, right? Like we experience that starvation feeling. And we know that when we feel starving, we're not, just like you said, you said the word present, and I just love that. But when we feel starving, we're not really paying attention to what we're eating. We're just kind of, you know, scoffing food because our body is asking for so much nutrients and so much energy that we're not actually allowing ourselves to take in, whether you like Thanksgiving food or not, you're not actually being present in what it is that you're eating. You're not being present with the people around you. So it's like at the end of the day, is that even something that you want to do? And if we know the physical feelings and the mental feelings, what is what are we actually gaining from doing that? Like I just I've never understood the logic behind. And obviously it's not logical, but I've always wanted to understand like the the the premise or the reason as to why people do that.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I also think, too, and look, as we talked about last week, like we know holidays can be really stressful. And I do think, especially when it comes to Thanksgiving, this, you know, like unfortunate cycle that's been created of you know, people undereating throughout the day, heading into Thanksgiving, of course, you're gonna be more likely to fight with your family. Of course, you're gonna be more irritated at everything going on. Like, of course, there's gonna be the things that, you know, are getting to everybody, like tensions are higher. And right, that lack of presence and awareness that, you know, we're getting back in the car at the end of the day. Like, you know, that went by quick. I don't even feel like I was really there. I was really present. I always think of the Snickers commercial, if they still make this, but the Snickers commercial from a few years ago, where their slogan was like, you're not you when you're hungry. And I love that commercial and I use it all the time to kind of explain of like, no, when we are that hungry, like you aren't, you know, yourself 100%. Because exactly like you're saying, right? Like your brain and your body is then becoming so focused and fixated on the food and of needing that nourishment that that is going to naturally captivate your attention. It's so hard to be present with other people when your brain is sending you constant thoughts about food. Constant thoughts about food is a sign of hunger.
SPEAKER_01:Correct.
SPEAKER_03:And so I always like to point that out, you know, like there are, you know, mood, energy implications here when we aren't eating as consistently throughout the day. And so having Thanksgiving be a typical day, be a typical day of eating. And again, of course, there's gonna be certain, you know, adjustments that come in. Maybe for somebody, their Thanksgiving meal is at 3 p.m. And that again is where we can then look at the day together. Okay, if we're at 3 p.m., let's go back earlier in the day. How would we envision that day going? And the other thing I always like to point out here too is that Thanksgiving meal, especially when it tends to be on the earlier side, there's a lot of shame and judgment about eating later on. And I feel very strongly when this comes up, where you know, people will say, Yeah, well, we ate, you know, the Thanksgiving meal at three o'clock and then dessert at four, and then I was hungry at seven or eight, and my family's making comments like, you just ate all this food earlier on. What do you mean you need, you know? It's like, if we think about this, if we, you know, zoom out, right? I always use the like zooming in, zooming out analogy. If we zoom out and we took a look at that, okay, you ate your Thanksgiving meal at three o'clock and dessert at four, and now it's seven or eight o'clock. Yes, of course your brain and body are going to be hungry here. You are welcome to eat something, you have full permission to eat something. But I think there's a lot of, you know, a lot of opinions that come into it with Thanksgiving planning. And so, you know, I am happy to always be that voice of like, you are allowed to eat before, you are allowed to eat after, you are allowed to enjoy your meal. Because I think, you know, unfortunately, that's really, really hard. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you just had so many good things. I just like I loved taking it all in.
SPEAKER_01:And I just think the comments are so unnecessary. And it's like so sad that our society like continues to just have them because you're shaming a basic human need and human function, right? Like, why aren't we sitting there and I don't want this to happen? But what's the difference between someone being like, oh, I'm hungry, or someone being like, oh, I have to go to the bathroom again? Like everybody always has to go to the bathroom, and that's normal. So why can't this be normal? You know what I mean? Like, I just don't understand why like food is always so villainized.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. And yeah, when you bring it up like that, where it's it's a physical sensation, yes, like like thirst or going to the bathroom or the need for sleep, you know, all these physical sensations we have, other people don't talk to us about those physical sensations in the same way. And we don't talk to ourselves about those physical sensations in the same way. You know, our inner monologue around food, because of all this influence that we have, is much more, you know, judgy and much more shameful when it comes to the way that we talk about food. The way that we question ourselves and our body when it comes to food is often very different than the way that we approach the language we use with our other physical sensations, which is so silly to me.
SPEAKER_01:Like, why can't physical sensations just be that? And why can't people just go about their business and do what they need to? Like, I don't we all understand what our bodies need and what our bodies are feeling. So for somebody else to be like, oh, why are you doing that to me? I'm like, that they're just projecting. Like, if I just want to have something, like we were talking about in our last episode, no need, like, mind your plate. I've got it. Thank you so much. And I just, you know, from the dietary perspective, because I know that we did this from the therapeutic one, so I'm curious the difference or the similarities. What would you say is a really good way for prepping for those comments? Or like how to what do you suggest to clients if they bring that topic to you? If, like, what do I say if someone says something to me about eating again after the meal?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, no, I think it's probably very similar to you know what we were discussing last week with the boundary setting. And so I would say, you know, when it comes to prepping for comments, like literally prepping for them, whether that is role playing. Playing with somebody, role-playing in a session, or just even like the individual person on their own, thinking about like, okay, I know like Uncle So-and-so is probably gonna say something about this. Like, how do I want to approach that? Like actually prepping and going into it, just so that way you as the individual feel a little bit more comfortable. And then I would say, you know, similar to what we talked about last week, with like setting boundaries, and boundaries can be direct, like we practiced last week, of you know, literally responding back. Boundaries can also be indirect, but just as impactful. And the one that I love so much, just for no other reason than this is probably like more so my kind of sense of humor, is just like staring back at somebody when they say something and like just staring back, not saying anything, and just seeing how long that takes for them to maybe get the hint that that was not something very nice or comfortable to say. And again, I just that's more my sense of humor. But I also think you have to have a sense of humor with some of this because I mean, sometimes the things that people say, it's so outlandish that anybody would think that that's appropriate to say to somebody else about food, about their body, and not humor to, you know, invalidate it at all, but more humor as a way to cope with it. Because look, these comments are hard and it can be really emotional, it can be really sad. And then having, you know, having good support people and support people can be people literally physically around you in the moment. It also can be if you use recovery record with your dietitian, like posting something on there, if you, you know, have the notes app on your phone, like jotting something down to share with your therapist the following week. Like there's ways to have support people even if they're not physically in the same room with you. Yeah. And so utilizing all of that as well. I also always think, too, that these comments about food, you know, and I know I talked about this last week too, but just like the comments about how full people are, it's the most boring conversation we could ever have. And there's so many other things to talk about. So, like, if you're in college, like start talking to relatives about like what classes you're taking and you know, what's exciting you about the things that you're learning. Or if you're a relative, a support person for somebody, like that's a great question to ask somebody. Oh, tell me what your favorite class is this semester. Like, there's just so many other things that we can talk about to spend quality time together. The last thing we need to be talking about more so on that day is food.
SPEAKER_01:I couldn't agree more because it's just like, why aren't we not focusing on family? Right? The whole premise of Thanksgiving is family, togetherness, being thankful. And I feel like when you are villainizing bodies and food and intuition and all of those things, that's the exact opposite of it. Like we're it's supposed to be this happy, beautiful day, and instead these negative, nasty, ugly comments are clouding the day. And that's not I mean, who wants to spend a day talking about these things? I don't, I just want to eat.
SPEAKER_03:And I think that's a good point and a fair point, is like some people like they don't want to go for these reasons, and so yeah, you know, for a lot of people, this is dreadful, and it's like there's the dread and the anticipation, you know, of oh gosh, and I have to go, and it's gonna be, you know, all these comments and just the anticipation of it all. And so, you know, if we as you know, the we who are listening, if there's like one thing that you could do that's doing something nice for somebody else in like this holiday season, it's like not making food and body comments, you know, talking about other things, being perceptive if you could see somebody's uncomfortable, you know, and talking to them about other things, changing the subject, like you know, you can be that person for someone else too.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, a hundred percent. And I feel the more that like everybody wants to enjoy the holiday, everybody wants to be present, right? And I think I love the suggestion you made of like having humor with it. And people and words can only hurt you if you give them power to do so. And if we are recognizing that maybe they are joking and we're personalizing it, or maybe they're projecting and we're allowing their stuff to become our stuff, like whatever the reason is, we don't have to allow their comments to bother us, and that's so much easier said than done. Very well aware of that, right? I think it it's just if humor is your coping skill, allow it to be, right? Like clients, I feel like all the time will use dark humor as their coping skill. And then as a therapist, I have to then sit there and be like, so what was that that we were joking about? What is underneath the darkness, right? Because obviously you're trying to make a joke out of something, but it's actually very serious, but we're trying to dilute it. No, no. However, in this situation, that's when we use humor as a coping skill, and that's when it can actually be really helpful because you're making light of it and you're also inadvertently showing the person, go ahead and say whatever you want, not gonna faze me. You're showing them that whatever their stuff is and they can't project it onto you because it's not going to bother you because you're so secure and stable in yourself that you know it has nothing to do with you, or that like you can take a joke, even though they're not like not funny, but like you can take a joke, you can do these things, and it doesn't have to ruin, bother, dilute your holiday experience. Right? Because even comments like that, even if a client is doing really well with being present during the meal and they're like, Wow, oh my god, I crushed it, like this isn't anxiety-provoking, like I can do this, da-da-da-da-da. But then a comment is made easily can shift you down, right? So I think allowing yourself to recognize that like where do we have control and power what the eating disorder doesn't want you to understand? You have it in how you respond, you have it in how you interpret. So if you stay strong, right, internal boundary. I'm not gonna let the projection be a thing, I'm not going to let comments be a thing, I'm gonna laugh about it. That's you. You have that control, you have that power. So use it. That was beautiful. I feel inspired. So thank you. Don't do that. I'm emotional, Max. You can't do that, my horning.
SPEAKER_03:No, no, really, it really was. And I think too, the other thing that always comes to mind for me in this topic. And if you listened in season one, I probably have talked about this, but I love the visual of like the recovery toolbox and you know, going to a day where there might be more triggers, things might be more challenging, like Thanksgiving for a lot of people, literally bringing your recovery toolbox with you, right? And for some people, that may be a certain support person or you know, having somebody on standby, like, hey, I'm gonna text this person, you know, if things are difficult. That might be, you know, like Jessica was saying, right? All of the different ways that we can set boundaries and we can, you know, process things and talk through things. That might be physical items you're bringing with you. It might be a fidget spinner, a stress ball, a journal, you know, whatever it is. And that you're also welcome to go and take a break if you need a break. Like, you know, go take a pause, step outside, you know, excuse yourself to another room. Like you're welcome to do that. And all of these different tools, having them with you just will make you feel so much more comfortable that day.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. Another one that I always recommend to clients, whether or not it's used, because I know it can feel really weird. Another tool that you can use is recording yourself giving yourself a pep talk. And I know it can feel a little funny, or if it's not, if you don't want to hear your own voice, totally get it. If you need to hear it from somebody else, who can be that person who can send you a recording of like, hey, you've got this, right? I know everybody, I mean, I don't know, that's dramatic, but I'm sure everybody uses the voice, the voice recording. So you're just doing like an audio text. Maggie knows how much I love an audio text. So, like, if someone can send that to you, it's in your thread, you can save it, it's in your, you know, recordings app, whatever the heck that thing is called, and then you can use it. Or is there, you know, can your therapist do it? I've done it for clients before, right? So then they have that support from the person that they trust the most to be like, okay, I can get outside of my head, because then you use multiple tools at once. Sometimes clients think to themselves, I just need one coping skill and I'm solid. And unfortunately, not always the case, right? And that's what the eating disorder is for a lot of our clients. It is that coping skill. But instead of like just restricting in my air quotes, if we're doing it on a healthier version, you might need to step outside, listen to an audio message, take some deep breaths, remind yourself that you're okay. It might have to be multiple things at the same time. And that's okay. Figuring out what it is in your toolbox that you can use individually or simultaneously is also going to be huge. And sometimes doing it in like the different sensory. So if it's audio or like if you're going outside and then that's temperature, or if you're, you know, washing water on your face and listening to something, right? Like there's so many different things you can do. What is going to be your best support during that time?
SPEAKER_03:Yes. And we know the eating disorder is not a healthy or sustainable coping mechanism. So, really, with all the examples that Jess just gave, it's the healthy, sustainable coping mechanisms, you know, that we want to be able to utilize long term. And again, when we think about that toolbox, like I always give the example of like, if you need to hammer something, right? And you go and look in your toolbox and you have a ruler and a pencil, you know, and a nail, like, and you don't have that hammer, like, it's gonna be kind of hard in that moment. So we need a wide variety of tools too, because a ruler is super important, but not that great when I need to hammer something. But when I need to measure something, here's now when I take my ruler out. So, same with all of our tools, right? Maybe it's, you know, pouring rain and you can't step outside, and that isn't a coping skill we can use in that moment. So we need to have a wider variety of skills that we can use too. So that way in all the different situations, we have our tools with us.
SPEAKER_01:100%. Because you never know what's gonna happen, right? That's why some people will always have an umbrella in their car because they don't know what the weather is going to be like that day. You having a variety of tools is going to ensure that in some way, shape, or form, you are going to be solid. And listen, coping skills are not meant to take everything away from us, it's they are there to be able to support us to ground, decrease the you know, heightened emotional reaction and response that we're having to something and allow us to keep going. It's not gonna make the anxiety going go away completely. It's not going to make the anger completely go away, but it's going, they're going to allow you to say, okay, and keep it going and allow that to then, you know, put it in a box, put it on a shelf, compartmentalize it, and go about the day and be present. It allows you to just push through, and that's what we're looking for. That's what we need.
SPEAKER_03:And food can be one of those tools. Oh, tell them, Maggie, tell. I I always think about this and talk about this. Like, we have emotional relationships with food. Food can be one of our ways to cope. We don't want it to be our only way to cope, but it can be one of those tools. So that can also be a tool on the holiday. Like, maybe I am going to sit with this piece of pie and you know, really be present with it and really focus on it and taste it. And oh my gosh, it's so delicious. Like that can be a way that you're coping in those moments, too. And so I always just like to point that out as well that you know, we do have these emotional relationships with food. And sometimes people try to ignore that. But if we're able to embrace it and see what a healthy relationship with food looks like, that it includes the physical, the emotional, emotional, the social, the mental, all these different aspects, like that's so important.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And the way that you just said that of like the physical, the emotional, the mental, the emotional. I think I said emotional twice, but there's so many different things that go into the holiday. Like it makes sense that it feels heavy for our clients. Like it's not just okay, you get dressed, you go, boom. It's like no, no, there's so many different nuances. There's so many different pieces to this that's going to make you feel physically maybe heavy because emotionally, mentally, spiritually, all of the all of the things you're going to be feeling that day. So it also makes sense. So give yourself grace if you also feel overwhelmed, because outside of sitting down for the meal that's overwhelming, the whole, like you said in like the beginning of all of this, the preparation and just what the day represents is just heavy within itself. So allow yourself to just, you know, if you got to start prepping yourself emotionally the night before, use your coping skills the night before, right? Sometimes we can't just prepare the day of, right? Like an interview. You're not going to prepare for the interview the day of the interview. You're going to give yourself a day or two. Give yourself a day or two when it comes to holidays too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And having a plan for the day after can sometimes be helpful. Where, you know, and again, for some people, that might be planning what food is going to look like. So we don't compensate and we have a really consistent day. That might be taking a deep breath. Okay, I survived and made it through. And like, here's how I'm going to take care of myself today. Or, you know, here are the things that I'm going to do for me this weekend. So that way I can decompress. I feel like I get time for me. There's, you know, there's so much to the before planning, like like Jess, you were saying. And there's, you know, there can be so much to the after planning too.
SPEAKER_01:A hundred percent. I have one more question for you, Megs, though. Okay. What is your favorite part about being a dietitian during the holiday season?
SPEAKER_03:Ooh, favorite part about being a dietitian during the holiday season. I would, I would say similarly to what I shared last week, which is, you know, just how these days can be really hard and they can be really stressful for people. And if there's, you know, one little itty bitty way that I could make it a little bit easier for somebody, whether it is planning, whether it's having somebody the following week to be able to like laugh about how ridiculous something somebody said was, whether it's, you know, recovery record, you know, note in the moment, whatever it might be. I also think to just to, you know, have some have a safe space to talk about food and your relationship with food, because with everything we're saying, there's not a lot of safe spaces for people to, you know, be around food, have a relationship with food. And so if we're able to provide just that, I see a huge benefit to that too. And here comes the tears.
SPEAKER_01:You're just such a gem. And you're just, I mean, I already gave you that big compliment. I won't make you sit through it again because I know. But uh, you're just, I just yes, I love it. You do the same thing, ma'am.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but we're talking about you right now. This is about you. Okay, also deflecting, good. Well, thanks for letting me put you in the hot seat today.
SPEAKER_01:Love it. Yeah, anytime. I feel like we are going to show people why dietitians are great. No more monsters.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. No, we're rebranding dietitians, is what we're trying to do here.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, we are.
SPEAKER_01:And I'll stand 10 toes behind that one, let me tell you. We will. Oh, well, thank you, Maggie, for allowing us to pick your brain. And thank you to our listeners who put in questions for today. I really liked seeing what everybody came up with, and I loved hearing all Maggie's answers.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and we hope that you have a really wonderful Thanksgiving holiday. We hope that it is not super stressful and you get a chance to enjoy and be present. And that, you know, some of the kind of tips and suggestions and things that we shared are things that you could actually take away and utilize. So please don't hesitate to reach out, give feedback. We know December has, you know, a lot of holidays coming up as well. So we're going to stick with the holiday theme, you know, for the next few episodes as well. So that way we can keep talking about some of the upcoming days.
SPEAKER_01:I hope everybody has a very, very happy Thanksgiving, and we will catch you in the next one. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast.
SPEAKER_03:We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.
SPEAKER_01:If this episode resonated with you, please subscribe, leave a rating, and comment and share with anyone else you may feel will benefit.