Nourish & Empower

From Decision Fatigue To Gentle Nourishment

• Jessica Coviello & Maggie Lefavor • Season 2 • Episode 2

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We unpack why hunger can show up while nothing sounds good and how emotional fullness, decision fatigue, and diet culture make choices harder. We share practical tools to shop with curiosity, build go-to foods, and use sensory cues and flexibility to find satisfaction again.

• reframing restrictions as variety and agency
• decision fatigue and mechanical eating as short-term tools
• myths about grocery store layouts and “healthy” aisles
• shop slightly hungry to buy what you actually want
• build a list of safe go-to foods for tough days
• use temperature, texture, and senses to decode cravings
• make future “food dates” to honor desires without urgency
• permission-based language to replace shoulds with likes



Trigger warning: this show is not medical, nutrition, or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a Registered Dietitian, Licensed Mental Health Provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider, as well as crisis resources, in the show notes. Listener discretion is advised.


Resource links:

ANAD: https://anad.org/

NEDA: https://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

NAMI: https://nami.org/home

Action Alliance: https://theactionalliance.org/

NIH: https://www.nimh.nih.gov/


How to find a provider: 

https://map.nationaleatingdisorders.org/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us

https://www.healthprofs.com/us/nutritionists-dietitians?tr=Hdr_Brand


Suicide & crisis awareness hotline: call 988 (available 24/7)


Eating Disorder hotline: call or text 800-931-2237 (Phone line is available Monday-Thursday 11 am-9 pm ET and Friday 11 am-5 pm ET; text line is available Monday-Thursday 3-6 pm ET and Friday 1-5 pm ET)


If you are experiencing a psychiatric or medical emergency, please call 911 or go to your nearest emergency room.



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SPEAKER_02:

Join us as we redefine, reclaim, and restore the true meaning of health.

SPEAKER_01:

Let's dive into the tough conversations about mental health, nutrition, eating disorders, diet culture, and body image. This is Nourish and Empower. This episode is brought to you by Hilltop Behavioral Health.

SPEAKER_02:

Specializing in eating disorder treatment, Hilltop offers integrated therapy and nutrition care in one compassionate setting.

SPEAKER_01:

Their expert team works with you to achieve recovery and avoid the need for a higher level of care.

SPEAKER_02:

Visit www.hilltopbehavioral health.com because healing happens here. Hey everyone. Welcome to today's episode of Nourish and Empower. It's Maggie and Jess. And today's topic is what to eat when nothing sounds good. As a reminder, we just want to put a little trigger warning. Today we'll be discussing nutrition and mental health. Listener discretion is advised. As a reminder, this show is not medical nutrition or mental health treatment and is not a replacement for meeting with a registered dietitian, licensed mental health provider, or any other medical provider. You can find resources for how to find a provider as well as crisis resource resources in the show notes. Okay. Hey, guys.

SPEAKER_00:

Hey, good morning.

SPEAKER_01:

How you doing? Well, you know, motherhood. It is a tie.

SPEAKER_03:

But we're going to be a good thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Another day in the life? Another day in the life. We're just praying that, you know, the naps stay napping. So then we're good during this recording this morning.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, you might hear Christopher in the background. So special guest today.

SPEAKER_01:

Apologies if it that does happen, but you know, he's like his mom. He loves to talk. So he might just want to interject his own thoughts and feelings on today's topic, which I'm excited for because I experience this a lot of feeling like I don't like I'm hungry, but I don't know what I want to eat. Especially, again, I'm gonna be a broken recorder, I'm so sorry. Especially in this motherhood era of mine. Christopher is allergic to dairy, so I have to be dairy free. So because I have to be dairy free, I never know what sounds good and I never know what I want to eat because everything that I want is cheese. So I feel like for me, I get very tunnel vision of I want what I can't have, very much like you tell a child, no, don't touch that, and all they want to do is touch it. That's where I am. So I'm I'm personally excited to learn from you today to see like, help me. How do what do we do when so many different things are around us for us to have, but nothing sounds good to eat.

SPEAKER_02:

It's so interesting that you bring that up because I've obviously been thinking a lot about this topic in preparation for today, but that part of it didn't cross my mind of what to do when there is a certain dietary limitation or restriction that you have. And I mean, something that I always think of here, and this is where I feel like we know that I have the golden retriever, like positive patty energy that that comes in, which is I see it as an opportunity for you to have more variety that you probably would have never had. I mean, we are very fortunate now where there are a ton of dairy-free options out there for people that have celiac. There's a ton of gluten-free options. And not to say, you know, not to minimize, like I think having a food allergy is incredibly difficult. Yeah. It's something we have to think about and something people worry about. But we are also at a point where, I mean, there's aisles in the grocery store dedicated to, you know, allergy-friendly foods.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And there's certain companies out there, like Made Good, for example, is, you know, a company that's an allergy-friendly, everything on their website is allergen-friendly. So for people who have not allergies, soy, sesame, because oftentimes we see allergies kind of come in groups like that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

There are a lot of resources out there. So I wonder for you to almost reframe it as well, this is a really cool opportunity where I'm gonna get to include in all these foods that I I feel like such a client. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_01:

I feel like such a client right now, and I and I understand. Like I'm having that feeling of like, don't tell me what to do and don't make me positive about this. Guys, I like you don't realize, especially with dairy, like you don't realize what has dairy in it. Like, I wanted Tostitos chips the other day, and I can't because they have milk in them.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, see, I didn't know that. And you taught me about the buns at fast food restaurants. I was just telling my husband about this, how, and I forget it, you'll have to have to clarify, but like most buns at fast food restaurants have dairy in them, right?

SPEAKER_01:

McDonald's, which is my my ride or die, had a McDonald's station at my wedding. Like, that's how much I love McDonald's. I like obsessed. Anyways, they their burger buns are fine, but like shake shacks you can't do. I don't think I can do Chick-fil-A buns either, but I can do like their chicken nuggets, which is great, and like McDonald's chicken nuggets I can do, but like McDonald's breakfasts I can't do. Like I always like get the biscuits, uh bacon naked cheese biscuit sandwich. Every single ounce of that has dairy in it, whether it's butter or milk. Like egg offles have milk in them, like the regular kind of egg offles. So many of my favorite things. Which, like, if I'm making things at home, like it's not bad, right? Like, I don't mind oat milk. So if I'm making French toast, like, okay, I can do that. But I have, you know, my own uh parfida tendencies. So for me, I like what I like because I like the consistency and knowing what the texture and what the taste is going to be. So having to try new foods, uh not the best. Oh, yeah, there's a lot happening in this bureau household, let me tell you. But to your point, I do write bringing the therapy into this. Making that reframe is so important because, and I've even seen it, like I said for myself, where if you go into trying a food with a negative or a hesitant thought process, you are going to get the ick, and everything about your mind, body, soul is going to tense up, like I feel it. So I have conversations in my head of like, you're going to like this. This is going to be okay, like all of that, because being more neutral to positive actually helps me feel more willing to try it than not. And like the food too.

SPEAKER_02:

Exactly. Yeah. No, I mean, that's really interesting. And there's a lot of psychology around, you know, not not just like trying new foods, but there's a lot of psychology around like we, you know, we gravitate towards certain foods and we have a more pleasurable eating experience like when we feel a little bit hungry. Versus when somebody is feeling really full and satisfied and satiated, you might put their favorite food in front of them and they just don't feel as interested in it. Or like food doesn't taste as good when we feel full, for example. So, yeah, if you're going into an eating experience with emotional fullness, which is more of what you're describing, which is that little bit of a negative attitude with it. Okay, now I'm going into this emotionally full. It's probably not going to taste as good. It's not going to be as pleasurable of an experience. Oh, yeah. And then you're leaving that eating experience not feeling satisfied. Yeah. Which, you know, is a frustrating feeling then too.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah. That's why sometimes when we're when we go out to eat, like Matt's always like, oh my God, let's try something new. And I immediately feel myself tense up because I think to myself, if I order something and I don't like it, that was a waste. So I love just having what I know that I like because I know I'm going to have such an emotionally positive and such like a satiated experience. And I'm such a foodie that like food makes my soul so happy that when I go to think about getting something that I don't know if I'm going to love, I get so scared that I don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Can I say one thing back to that? That's probably gonna be super annoying.

SPEAKER_01:

Sherapise me, Mags. Hit me, girl.

SPEAKER_02:

Every food that you like or love was a new food to you at one point. So who's to say that you trying something new won't now become a food that you're going to love?

SPEAKER_00:

Listen, you're not wrong. You're not wrong. And this is why I have you in my life for so many different facets, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Because you are correct. Reminding myself of that's the tough part.

unknown:

It's hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It is hard.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Very much so.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, we make hundreds of decisions around food every single day. So I think a big piece of this topic too, and obviously you're, you know, you're seeing this when it comes to, you know, your personal experience with okay, now I have to focus more on being dairy-free. But I think even in general, if there isn't an allergen component to it, we get decision fatigue around food. Like it gets tiring to have to think about what do we have? What do I gotta get at the grocery store? What's gonna be for dinner again? You know, we make so many decisions around eating every day that people do get fatigued and tired, which is why we need to mix it up, which is some of the kind of tips that we're gonna talk about today.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And it is hard, right? Even thinking about, you know, clients saying, like, okay, if I want to just like have a menu for the week, or even thinking about like our lives, right? Where we're like, okay, what what are our dinners going to be? I know for some people they need to figure it out Sunday grocery shop so they have everything. Whereas some people are like, if I just think about it that day and I go to the grocery store every day, but I'm just getting everything I need for that one meal, like doing it in small doses versus one large, like it everybody functions so differently. And that's also something I find so interesting of just what our levels of overwhelm and what our comfort levels of decision making around food, like what that is for people too, because it's a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And you bring up a lot of good points too, where it's like you have to consider time and your schedule and access. And some people, right, some people like the the weekend meal prep where I'm going to make the same meal, you know, and eat that a couple days in a row. Other people, like myself, for example, I'm a huge variety eater. I don't want to eat the same thing over and over. I get tired of it after probably the second time, if not even after the first time. So, like meal prepping like that doesn't work for everybody, but some people prefer to, you know, cook each night. Some people go to the grocery store multiple times a week and would rather buy, you know, here's the four things that I need for dinner tonight, rather than going and doing a big grocery haul every two weeks. So there's a lot of factors to consider. And I think too, the grocery store is actually like a great starting place for us to talk about this topic because it's super common. We all experience it of feeling like nothing sounds good. Now it's more so-called the ick, which I always think is funny that like it has a new term, but you know, just what to do when nothing sounds good. And I think starting at the grocery store is such an important piece. And there's a couple things that whenever people talk to me about this topic, I kind of always think of. So the first one is going to a different store. Because we all kind of have our probably one or two favorite grocery stores. But if you have the availability and the access to get to another store, that quite naturally, even though, yes, of course, there's a lot of the same products and brands out there, but the layout's slightly different. There might be some brands that are unique, like going to shop right and going to Trader Joe's, there's gonna be, yeah, some similarities, but like you're saying, it's gonna be so different because of different products.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And if there isn't time or access to go to a new store, or if going to a new store sounds overwhelming because grocery stores can also be really overwhelming and overstimulating.

SPEAKER_00:

I hate a grocery store.

SPEAKER_02:

That's fair. That's I love the grocery store, but I think like dietitian, you know, I just anything food related brings me joy. So I do like it. But that's fair, right? Like we all have those errands that you know we don't enjoy as much. So I always think too, like it could be your same store, but just walk in a different direction. Because if you think about it, and I go to a couple different grocery stores, right? I always walk the exact same way, and so you're naturally then going to kind of fall in this same routine and pattern of picking out the same things because we're just creatures of habit. So if you just go in and you go like to the left instead of to the right, different things are going to catch your eye. Yeah. Because you're doing them in a different format, and you likely will find some things that you either would have never seen, you might have missed, or you're just like, ooh, that looks good, that sounds good. So it gives you a chance to expand variety too, which can really help when nothing to eat sounds good.

SPEAKER_00:

That's so interesting. I would never think of that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, because everybody goes the same way, the grocery store. And they almost design it, right? Like because of the way the registers usually are, it kind of pushes you to sort of go in the same direction.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But who's to say you have to go in that direction? You could start in the middle, you could start in the back, you could start on the whatever side is opposite of where you typically go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's like it really doesn't matter if you think about it. That's like two. I remember speaking with another dietitian about grocery stores when we were in like a joint session, and it's interesting, because you've also said this too, how the grocery store is designed a certain way. Where it's like interior versus the exterior of the aisles and everything, and it's like made that way, specifically, I think that and I also thought that was very interesting. I don't think I liked the reasoning behind it, but I can't remember the reasoning behind it. But I also think it's interesting how like the produce and like the milks and like the proteins and stuff, and then all the snack foods are all in the middle.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a diet culture reason for it. There's some like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why you didn't like it. That's why I was smiling as you were saying that. So there's there's a lot of food marketing that goes into grocery stores. There's a lot of psychology actually of like where on the shelf to put different foods, right? So there's certain foods, and like once Christopher starts walking, for example, you'll start to notice this because like the bottom row, I guess you would call it, in like a grocery store aisle is like supposed to be geared towards like what kids might want and what kids might see. Whereas like there's certain things that are more at like eye level for adults, for example. So adults would go to pick it. So there's a lot of you know, kind of the the layout and everything is included in as a factor. The whole diet culture piece of it, and this is a huge myth and misconception, is that like the quote unquote like healthier part of the grocery store is the perimeter, and the unhealthier part is you know, the middle aisles. Although, you know, as dietitians, obviously we love to challenge all of these diet culture myths, but there's so many nutrient-dense foods found in the middle aisles. And when we're thinking nutrient dense, like we also have to think about cost. We also have to think about storage. And so, you know, it's not always feasible for people to buy animal protein to have, you know, for dinner every night. It's expensive. Where do you store it? You know, prepping it, cooking it, whereas like you could grab beans, chickpeas, some of those, you know, canned goods that are shelf stable that are still gonna be a great protein source. They're gonna be a fraction of the price. So there's plenty of nutrient dense foods in the middle of the grocery store, too.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

But that's kind of that myth and misconception is like, you know, the middle aisles are where like the less nutrient-dense foods are.

SPEAKER_01:

Which is disrespectful because pasta's in the middle aisles, and pasta is like the best food that there ever existed. So I yeah, I remember being so angry when I heard that that was a thought process of how and this isn't just what right, like the psychology of things, or maybe this is just where my brain goes and it's not necessarily psychology, but it just makes me mad how people overthink it that much. That like diet culture tries to infiltrate everything of life, like we were talking about in our last episode. Like, coffee now has protein in it. Like, we can't just have coffee anymore. Like a grocery store can't just be, you know, it makes sense to put a refrigerator on the outside instead of in the middle and like logistically or you know, with I don't know if plumbing is the right word, but like the electrical work, right? Like it might not make sense to put a refrigerator in the middle of the store how it is the outside, right? So I it just like uh irritates my soul that all of these things continue to just be uh negatively impacted, which I then wonder going towards the topic of today of like what to do when you when you feel hungry but nothing sounds good, when you're grocery shopping, is that why like do people feel hesitant to go into those middle aisles? Do people feel like, oh, do I get this? Do I get that? Oh, but there are carrots over that. You know what I'm saying? Like, I wonder how that plays into what people then grocery shop for and how much guilt goes through the body and the mind while they're shopping for a home.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, definitely. You know, again, there's hundreds and hundreds of decisions around food that we're making. The grocery store is a great example of this, where and so that's why I always think with the grocery store too, if that feels overwhelming or overstimulating, or you just don't have the time or the energy, like now, you know, thankfully there's online options, or you can make your cart, and once you make it, then you can always go back and you know edit it for future grocery shopping trips. Like there are other options out there too. And I think the other piece with what you're describing as well is because there can be so much overthinking and the guilt and everything you're describing that happens in the grocery store. So often then we leave the grocery store with foods that we don't actually feel that interested and excited about. And so whenever this topic gets brought up to me as like, oh nothing sounds good, like, are we buying things that sound good? Are we buying things that excite you? So sometimes I'll ask if you were to go out to eat, right? What would you typically order? And that might be, you know, kind of sparking, oh, okay, wow, that's so interesting. I would always order this when going out to eat, but I never make that for myself at home. Or what types of restaurants do you like to go to? Do you make that type of cuisine at home? And then you know, my number one favorite tip ever is we're trained, and this is a diet culture thing, to go to the grocery store full. There's this huge diet.

SPEAKER_01:

So did my sister-in-law. I we loved this one. Literally talked about it during it, it was either just a typical Sunday dinner or Thanksgiving. Like this became like a whole topic of conversation at my family table because my sister-in-law listened to you talk about it and she was like mind-blown.

SPEAKER_02:

I love this one. I think it's it's you know, there's this diet culture mentality, right? Go to the grocery store full because if you go when you're hungry, you're going to actually buy what you want. And I always think, why wouldn't you want to go hungry and actually buy what you want? Like you said this to me the other day. You're like, well, you go to a restaurant hungry, so why wouldn't you go to the grocery store hungry and actually bring home food that you want to have, actually feel excited about food? And and I would say too, so I love Costco and feel like that's such a millennial. Like, love Costco. It's like an exciting, you know, event, right? We always joke it's like our most expensive date is to go to Costco, but we'll go to Costco shop first and then get pizza for dinner because Costco pizza is amazing. So it's like you're going into Costco a little bit hungry, and as you're walking through the aisles, you're picking things out, like you're getting excited. I'm like, oh, this looks good. Oh, I haven't seen this. Like, you know, you're filling that car getting excited, and then you go and you have this awesome pizza, right?

SPEAKER_00:

And so we're like their hot dogs.

SPEAKER_02:

I'm I'm not a hot dog person, but I know their hot dogs are supposed to be really good. You're not a hot dog person? There are very few food preferences I have, and I feel like we've actually talked about now all of them on this podcast.

SPEAKER_01:

Because you know I don't like mints, because I remember you describing grasshopper pie once, and and I was so excited, and you looked at me like you were not okay, and I was like, Oh, so no, we're not okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I don't like toothpaste flavored foods, but Yes, I remember but literally probably my only two food preferences are like I don't like mints and I don't like hot dogs. So you you know you know them all. Besides that, I eat everything.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh my goodness, I love. But yeah, no, hot their hot dogs are also phenomenal. But continue, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02:

No, no, that's that's kind of the main piece. I feel like going to the store hungry, you know, can be, and not that that has to be every experience, but I think it can be almost an experiment or like an interesting experience to see what do I buy, you know, and there's always this fear with eating intuitively and listening to your body that we're not going to have variety or there isn't going to be balance. But I think people can almost surprise themselves sometimes too, where yeah, when you go hungry, like you do still have a varied cart, you know, there is all the different food groups there, there's different colors and textures, and you know, all of that happens. And that again is a big piece of like what we were talking about in the first episode, which is like giving yourself that permission. Like you permission to buy what you want to eat and you know, have a wide variety of foods, yeah, and that it's okay to enjoy eating too.

SPEAKER_01:

100%. Because I think too, right? I know when you're how I just thought of this based on how you just worded your last statement. Going to the grocery store, and let's say you think if you go to the grocery store hungry and you're like, okay, I know I have craved a salad, so let me get those. I know I have craved a bell pepper, so let me get those, or carrot and hummus, and Oreos and ice cream and a frozen pizza and pasta, right? Like I feel like the intention there because you're thinking about it in such a neutral manner is so different than going when you're full and thinking, okay, well, I should get this or I should get that, right? And I think even just switching, because we know main language, like even just switching, I have gotten this and I like it from the should, it's just such a different reason as to why you're getting the food, right? Because I think to your point, everyone is thinking, okay, am I going to be balanced or am I only going to get, you know, the fun foods maybe? Or even for some people, they're like, okay, I haven't gotten fun foods in a while, but I I love more nutrient-dent food. So am I going to put these things in my cart, right? And I think whichever side of the spectrum you lay on, when you go in hungry, I think you have more of that permission and that fluidity of thinking about both sides because you want both of them and you're being more intentional versus being full and thinking of food as a chore. And I think that's also very, very different.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. No, absolutely. I think that's such a good everything you said was was great. And and I know too that you always reframe that word should. And as you were describing that, what I was thinking of is like, this is a joke I feel like I've seen for years, but it's like the bag of spinach sitting in the back of the fridge, you know, like staring at me. Yep. And it's, you know, hey, if you love spinach, awesome, get spinach. If you don't love spinach, that's okay. And you can get other things. But again, I think it's that permission piece and that allowance of like, I can get the foods that I want, and I can trust that my body is going to give me these cues for all of these different foods.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Even if I'm maybe not getting those cues right now. Even if nothing sounds good right now, that's a temporary feeling. Yeah. It goes in in cycles because again, there's as we're describing, there's so many aspects to it. There's decision fatigue that comes in. There also might be things masking hunger in those moments. So I'm sure you hear this all the time, but other stressors going on, you know, can definitely mask hunger, mask, okay, you know, what do I want to eat? Nothing sounds good. It might not actually have anything to do with the food, and there could be other reasons behind that.

SPEAKER_01:

100%. Because there's, you know, just like you worded it earlier when I was giving my personal example and you said it sounds like emotional fullness. That's such a real thing that people don't recognize. And just like emotional eating is a thing, right? And emotional eating doesn't have to be bad. Just like being emotionally full isn't necessarily a negative thing. It's a normal experience that everybody has. It's just understanding the navigation of it and going into a situation emotionally full has such an impact on our decisions, right? Even if we're just thinking about not emotional fullness in the sense of food, but an emotional fullness in the sense of a conversation with a loved one. If you're overly emotional about something and then you jump into a conversation, are you screaming? Are you yelling? Are you crying? And that's because you're emotionally full. So we have experiences even outside of food where we see how emotional fullness impacts us so greatly that it makes you wonder, well, why wouldn't it affect us with food? Like it's such a similar space. It's just a different avenue with our lives.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. So let me ask you this then. If somebody is struggling with emotional fullness and it's masking their hunger cues, what might be like something you'd recommend?

SPEAKER_01:

So I will always ask a client if they say I'm full, right? And and if I'm doing a meal support, a snack support, whatever it is in the middle of session. One of the things I will ask is, okay, you know, when was the last time you ate today? Just because I just also like to know what is the time frame of them eating, because to me that's a really important insight. So if we go down that avenue first and they're like, oh, I ate, you know, breakfast, and it say that breakfast is at seven o'clock and we're having session at 11, right? If we know bodies, we understand that our bodies are hungry every two to four hours, right? So if we're now on hour five and you're saying you're still full. Let's think about that for a second. Because if we know that we haven't had any nutrients, if we haven't had any energy points, right? Bringing it to the post that we made the other day about what my sister-in-law heard at Dunkin' Donuts. If we haven't had any energy points in our bodies, uh, there's no way we're not hungry. Just like if we haven't had anything to drink, we're obviously going to be thirsty, right? But thirst is a much more acceptable physical feeling than being hungry. But so that's kind of where I start. And then we go into the education of, okay, we know that physically and scientifically we are hungry. So then we think about, okay, what have we experienced today? And then we kind of go through the day. And if they say nothing happened today, it does, when we think about emotions, it does spark, oh, but last night I was really angry. Okay. So then we go into what happened last night. Because sometimes our emotional fullness, what I like to call sometimes is we'll have an emotional hangover. So then whatever we felt the day before can carry into that day. And is that why we're then not really hungry today? Like maybe we had breakfast, but it didn't bother us at breakfast because maybe we weren't super cognitively aware of everything. But as the day went on, we started thinking about last night, started thinking about what was going on. So now all these emotions are pent up. So then we're emotionally full. So I like to take it from a stance of logistics, what is our time frame, what is the science, and then bring it into okay, so this is how the emotions are affecting us and kind of point out how it has a very similar experience to a physical fullness. And then I'll say, so what's something that's safe to eat? What's something that's super easy just to get down, so to speak? And if they say, oh, well, no matter what, I know popcorn's really easy, boom, then that's the snack that we have. I know that I always can eat a cheeseburger, no problem. Wonderful. An apple, whatever it is, in those moments where we feel emotionally full and we know we need energy points, we go towards that safe food.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, absolutely. I call them go-to foods. So I'll do like a list of go-to foods in times when eating does sound good, right? Because I think sometimes what happens too is we don't prep for this, and then all of a sudden when we're in it, it feels like now nothing sounds good, now I don't know what to do, I have the ick, I don't want to think about it. Yeah. So I'll sometimes do that ahead of time of like, okay, these lists of exactly like you said, these go-to foods. Yeah, you know, and it's different for every single person. And I also think there's a piece of this here where and and this is okay, but we do have times where we eat more mechanically. And we're eating for fuel. And maybe we're not really eating for like the greatest satisfaction or you know, the most pleasurable meal we can think of. Like we might be eating because, like you said, well, it's been five hours, and this is when I need to give my brain and body that fuel, that energy. And again, this is short term. There's going to be times of eating that I'm going to, you know, feel more interested in, feel more pleasure. And it's okay that we have those more mechanical eating experiences too.

SPEAKER_01:

A hundred percent. And I feel like we have so many instances where that can happen, right? Whether our job all of a sudden got super busy. So we got late, we got hung out hung. What's the word I'm looking for? Thank you so much. Hung up on, you know, our day-to-day. So then and then we're like, oh my god, I gotta eat something. So you grab a bar super quick, or like I know again, motherhood. When it's, you know, I'm waking up in the middle of the night to like pump or feed, and then I wake up and gotta do it all over again, and then I have to walk the dog and then I have to feed again. You're like, okay, what's a quick snack I can grab real quick before I can sit down and make a breakfast, right? Like there are so many instances in life where we might just need to be mechanical. And I remember too, I think it was last year. Timeline doesn't really matter, but there was an Instagram post that I saw and I resonated with it so much because again, this is where like I understand like the food piece so well that the post said sometimes you have to eat for satiation and not enjoyment. And I read that and got angry because I'm one of those people that like I want to feel ah when I'm eating something. However, sometimes I have to just eat what I packed for lunch and not spend money on DoorDash because I need to save money, or you know, if there isn't any chicken in the house because I have to go grocery shopping. So peanut butter sandwich is really great with carrots, but I don't really want that, right? Like you have all these instances where you do have to realize that sometimes you do have to eat for fuel, and it's okay that it pisses you off, and it's okay that it doesn't feel great, and it's exactly what you need, right? And it's like those two like opposite things can live in the same space at the same time.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. And I always say, in addition to that, of like make a date with yourself, having that food in the future. Because oftentimes this comes up with kids and parents, where a kid will say, I really want pizza, I really want pizza. And the parents are like, I we can't get out there to get pizza, or like the pizza place is closed, or you know, whatever it is for the reason. Yeah. And then it can reach this almost like disagreement point because it's disappointing when we do, when something does sound good, it's disappointing if we can't get it. Yeah. But I always then go, okay, like let's make a date then. Okay, I can't have this right now. And sometimes even saying this to yourself because we know how important self-talk is. Hey, we can't have this right now for whatever reason. You know, these facts are outside of our control. But maybe tomorrow or, you know, on Friday or whatever it is, like we'll be able to get this, we'll satisfy that craving. Yes. Because, you know, we also want to obviously we're talking a lot today about what's eat when nothing sounds good, but we also want to be able to satisfy when there are things that sound good, yeah, but with that recognition that there has to be flexibility there because we can't always satisfy it in the exact moment that we want to know.

SPEAKER_01:

100%. Right? It's even thinking about like the therapy piece of things, we always want instant gratification. Like our culture loves instant gratification, right? Even psychologically, where it's like, okay, and I know, you know, victim to this, where like if we're talking about our documentation, LOL, and I will be like, okay, I can do my notes another day. I just want to lay on the couch. I want to just relax, right? That's helping in the moment, Jessica. But let me tell you, this past Sunday, Jessica wanted to run away from home because I then had to spend two to three hours doing off my notes because I didn't do them, right? And so you have to think about even when it comes to what to eat, sometimes you just have to do what's right in the moment. And then you can always, and you know, it'll be fine in the future. But it is sometimes realizing that the instant gratification won't always be there, and that's okay, even though it doesn't feel great. And I think when you're thinking about like what to do when nothing sounds good to eat, like, is it because you don't have what you actually want to eat? So now you then feel like you're stuck because you have that tunnel vision.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. And I would say then the the last thing that that comes to mind for me with that is if you don't have the exact thing that maybe you're thinking of, think of the characteristics of that food. Because if I want pizza, but the pizza place is closed. Okay, what I really want is something warm temperature-wise, right? Love when you do this. Oh, this is great too. But like, I want something warm. What I really want is something cheesy. What I really want is something that has like a soft bread component. So I might have other ingredients in my house that might not make pizza, but could make something warm and cheesy with the soft bread. So there are ways where we can get pretty close, and again, then make your date with yourself. Okay, I'm still gonna get the pizza, you know, whenever I have the next access to. But I can also figure out those characteristics in the moment to like get pretty close to something that sounds satisfying for me.

SPEAKER_01:

As soon as you said all that, because I I love when you ask that question. The question I was thinking of that you always ask is, you know, go through the five senses with foods to see what it is that you're craving too. And I also love that one. So even that I feel like is when nothing sounds good. Can you go through the five senses and see temperature, texture, smell? I forgot all the other ones, you know, and then you figure out what you want. But I feel like when you think of all the components and what it is that you're craving, immediately I went to a Panera bread bowl with mac and cheese. When you just gave your example. But in the moment, and that you know, it makes sense, your cell once again tunnel vision of like, I want pizza, I want pizza, I want pizza. But if you do, use your therapy skills, right? Of like, okay, radical acceptance. I can't have pizza right now. So how do we take a deep breath? How do we emotionally regulate to just accept it and ground and move forward? So we're allowing the emotions to happen, we're allowing ourselves to feel the frustration, and we're solution focused to not get so bogged down that we then just don't eat, right? So then it's figuring out, just like you said, then using the dietary skills, what are the components I'm craving and what's another meal I can make with those things. This is why I love when we do joint sessions, because this then happens and I'm obsessed.

SPEAKER_02:

So perfect intersection of nutrition and therapy. I mean, it's this topic, I feel like is one of those where it perfectly intersects. And I think this is one of those topics where it's like, yeah, this is you know the whole reason why we thought of doing this podcast in the first place, too, of like showing the intersection of nutrition and therapy and like how we bounce off of each other. So we hope this was helpful. We hope that you know you can use this in the future when you have that decision fatigue, when you have those moments where nothing to eat sounds good. And as always, if you have questions or feedback or you want to hear more about this topic, reach out, let us know. You can follow at Nourish and Empower underscore podcasts on Instagram, and we will catch you back here next time. And TikTok and TikTok. I think I think it's the same on TikTok. I'm, you know, you know that I'm the millennial who only likes Instagram. So I know that's what it is on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know what it is on TikTok. I know, I know. I have to think, I have to look that up too. But I know that we do have both platforms. We do. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. We'll get the TikTok back up and running.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my goodness. But yes, thank you everybody so much for being here again and for supporting us. Like we said yesterday on our Instagram. If anyone saw a story, it takes a village. And part of that village is our listeners, right? Because without you guys, it's just, I mean, Maggie and I would do this and just talk to each other all the time, anyways. But without you guys, just really isn't any like this wouldn't be what we would be so fortunate to do. So thank you so much, and we will catch you in the next one. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to this episode of the Nourish and Empower Podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

We hope this episode helped you redefine, reclaim, and restore what health means to you.

SPEAKER_01:

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